Humor, Holiness, and a Seinfeld Writer’s Journey (Tom Leopold) | Ep. 18

Well, thank you for joining us here on the Walk Up podcast. So, I was trying to search for all the ways to introduce you, and then it turns out you have written- There's no cough button here, so that's why you heard me cough. I'm sorry. This is real. We're live. Well, if it was real, you'd have a cough button, and I could press it, and no one would hear me go, ah, and flambin' stuff. No, we're all about authenticity. We're all about authenticity.

We want the- If you're all about authenticity, I'm your man, my friend. And I am? So, I thought, well, how do I introduce Tom, and then... As I was doing my extensive research, you know, weeks and weeks of research, and then I stumbled across this thing called Twitter. I don't know if you've heard of it. I hear it's going to be big.

Well, it's now called X, but whatever. I have it. I have X. So, I came across your Twitter account, or X account, and you've written the best intro to yourself, which is Tom Leopold. As many things. I'm laughing on myself already. I can't wait to hear how funny I am.

Tom Leopold, as many things. I forget, you know, you forget it when you see it. He's an enigma, wrapped in a conundrum, wrapped in a bath towel. So, for better or worse, you are... That sums it up. I think that pretty much says it. You're in more than a bath towel here today, which our female audience is disappointed, but... I hope I'm half as absorbing. Well, we brought... That was pretty good. That was good. That was pretty good.

No college, either. It shows. It shows. Thank you. Thank you very much. We didn't actually need that spelled out for us. Oh, okay. I didn't know who your listenership is. What your listenership is. Well, there's only three of them, so we're still learning.

And they're all. But not a bath towel. We got an ascot instead. Right. Do you give out bath towels to guests? On the way out. Name the show on it? It's, I mean. Just say merch. We hand them out. It is not necessarily like a gift as much as it is theft. As is.

I do not know if your ascot doubles as a bath towel. No, no. It would for if you were, you know, Tinkerbell size. And you are not Tinkerbell size. In your younger days, in the 70s, you would have. In the 70s, you could do anything. Yeah, you could wear that as a bath towel. Time of turmoil.

It could be a tourniquet. There is so much. It could be a tourniquet. It could be hold up a, you know, stagecoach. How old are you? Football coach or something. So, I... You cut all this out. I thought of... This isn't any good. No, no, this is all warm-up. We're not going to use any of this.

I figured you'd need at least 30, 40 minutes of warm-up. Yeah, I'm like a wonderful old, you know, Bentley. Yeah, run this. Like, you know, sitting in a garage for 100 years, all that. You've got to flood the engine. Yeah, I'm a Rolls Royce, but you've got to warm me up a little bit. Not you personally, but the listeners, I guess. We have a guy for that. We have a team.

You have a team? Do you have a team? Well, we do have a team. We have a guy who's parking your car right now. That's your team. And that would normally be a joke, but we actually do have somebody. You do have a team.

We've got Jaya. Huh? Jaya running the sound. Jaya, yeah. That's why I didn't remember. Will's parking her car right now. Yeah. Will's parking my car. Somebody's actually massaging your feet. I should tell you, I don't have a car. Okay. I just wanted to see what, test your loyalty. If you'd send your assistant out to move my car. No, I do have a car. He's going to break into somebody's car? Whatever he's got to do. I don't know. No, it was very sweet of him to do that.

I was a little late. And so, I parked in a don't park here zone. And, you know, that could mean so many things. It's really up to interpretation. Really. So, I parked in a thing where it said ride share only. And so, now, it was just me in the car. And now, in order not to get a ticket on the way out of there, I got to find three strangers.

See, Phil's sitting right out in the car with me. Yeah, and I think that's... Share the ride share. Yeah, I think you're just yelling out the window, hey, do you want to join me in this... I'll drive you a block. Yeah, and then... And then I'll let you off over there. No, I did the ride share. Actually, the other day, I was... Ride share.

Driving... I rarely drive in New York City, of course, but as I'm sure this is a story you've heard a thousand times, I was picking up an Indian bishop. From the airport, and I borrowed another Franciscan priest's car to do this particular errand, and I was already in the car with another priest from India, and now I might drive, you know. One day every six months or nine months, and of course, I got pulled over immediately because I- For what? Took a turn, even though it was green, they said no left turns, even though- And you creased across city lines or something?

Yeah, it was a trafficking situation. I see. In more ways than one. It gets you, because the signs are hard to read. It's like I had an uncle who kept saying that all the time. That's how they get you. Whenever anything happened, that's how they get you, you know? Like, everybody was suspicious.

And how would you actually see somebody get pulled over in lower Manhattan? It never actually happens, because there's too much traffic. Of course, I still got pulled over. And I just, I laid heavy into the, like, listen, I've got this priest in the car with me, we're picking up a bishop, and fortunately, I think the Puerto Rican cop was like... You know, I'm just going to let you away with a warning.

So, I was like, oh great, how am I going to explain this to the Franciscan priest that I got pulled over while taking the other Indian priest to go pick up the Indian bishop? Wow, you're late. Yeah, well, yeah. But it all worked out. So, here is the way I thought would be interesting to enter. There's a story not everybody is going to have.

I've got a lot of those. That's a good one. I've got a lot of those, and- I think maybe I'll use it, if you don't mind. No, no, please do. The good thing about it- Why would I know all those pieces? My personality is not involved in the story at all. You're just the driver, so you can really just take that story- Yeah, remove the ego from the id.

Yeah, I'm not so good at that. It's cholesterol, I hear. I'm not so good with that. I'm not plagued with humility. It's a curse. That's why I hang out. I have so much of it. You have like a black belt in humility. I tell you, if I get any more humble, I don't know what. Your mother would say that sometimes.

I don't know. If I hear you do that, I don't know what. Boys. My dad would be on the road a lot. I have one of four boys, and if we misbehave, my mother would go, do I have to call that man?

Do I have to call that man? My dad would be on the road schlepping sample cases into men's shirts or neckties, you know, for kids at home. Anyway, do you have any violin music you could play behind that? I do, actually. No, we have like a... Just put a lay-in in later. A little string. A couple of French horns wouldn't be so terrible either, as long as you're doing it.

Well, for your humility, I feel like. That is how humble I am. I am so humble that I can say how humble I am and still be humble. Which is great, if you think about it. Not so great if you think about it too long, though.

Difficult needle to thread. There you go. So, I thought one way it might be interesting to frame the conversation is through the ... The interesting people in your life that I happen to also have had the fortune of interacting with as well, it might be a way for us to kind of interface with different facets of your background and life experience in a way that might be less chronological and more relational. Or pharmacological. Well, pharmacological, yeah. We're going to, that'll be- Well, that's interesting.

Isn't that third segment? Because, you know, people, the only thing interesting about me is these interesting- I'm not interested in the people I know. I'm not interested. So, you're just kind of stealing their interest in you. No, I just happen to be there, and, you know, who was it? My friend Mike McKee once said that he read somebody's book where, it's not that I'm near great, it's just that I'm near the greats.

Well, yeah, that's near great. I'm just a recording secretary of my own life. I have found that to be the case of... And I deserve a raise, by the way. Oh, yeah. So, if you could talk to somebody at HR, I'd appreciate it. Yeah, HR is upstairs.

I'm not going up those stairs again. I know, we're in the bowels here. Yeah. We're in the sub-basement. Yeah, I just... Which is good for acoustical quality, but not necessarily good for those that... I just went to a doodle shop in Hong Kong. One more flight down, and you're in like...

If you start hearing Mandarin. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Oh, hello. I'm doing racist Chinese bits now. If I can't do them, who can? No, no, that's in now. I think, I don't know, this- Racism's back. Yeah, no, this woke thing- It's better than ever. I don't think it's going to last. No, there's no money in it. There's no wokeism anymore. Yeah, so, well, if you want to- Wokeism is where it's at, my friend. Yeah, most people are- I don't know if you noticed, nobody's offended by anything anymore.

You could say absolutely anything, and they don't take offense. They're really just- Really? Have they stopped? Because they look like they- There was a press release. There's still good necks out there. I mean, the woke are fine. They're good people. They're neat.

Woke people are neat. Are they? I don't know. I'm kind of thinking probably. Or they have us help. They have help to keep things neat. But you know what? Fewer smile lines. Well, that's because old Dr. So-and-so did a little nip-key and tux-key. Oh, I was talking about the woke. I can afford to have some work done. I would say, when you're woke, you don't have to laugh as much, so you don't get the smile lines.

Well, you know... I don't know if I'm taking off subject, because I don't... We haven't gotten on a subject. We haven't found a subject yet, and maybe, which I told you, you better ask me about somebody else, but no, and I heard that... Not only do, would they want to give undocumented workers free transsexual surgery, but I say, why not go all the way and give them just, you know, some nip and tuck, you know, face, you know, their face is done.

A little plastic surgery. A little plastic surgery. Take the eye bags, you know, just give everybody a fresh look. Not an overdone where everything is drawn, skin back is too tight and all that. Yeah, let's not worry about that. What are we worried about? We're going to be at the genitals. Why don't you cut off the genitals? It doesn't make much difference what you do.

That's what I always say. That's what my old grandma used to say. That was also on your Twitter bio, strangely enough. Twitter bio? I don't ever look at that. Well, that was your Twitter bio that I read to you. Oh. That was what I read to you, that you're an enigma and a conundrum wrapped in a bath towel. God, it sums me up.

This is what happens when you've written so much. I am my stuff. Yeah. So, here is my idea. Okay, let's get serious. Here is my idea. I am going to name these people, and then we are going to use them as ways to talk about your varied, fascinating, and criminal life. You mean how I was able to climb the golden show business ladder to that all-important middle rung? Is that what you're asking? Well, I was going to talk about when you climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, but if you want to talk about the metaphorical Hollywood ladder, we can do that, too.

Well, I just did. Yeah. I didn't. Strangely enough, you had a tough time coming down from the... Into the sub-basement, but no problem ascending Machu Picchu. Well, let's put it this way. I stepped on the same people going up that I stepped on going down.

You know that old saying? No, I don't. Always step on the same people going up the ladder of success that you step on. Step on them again on the way down. On the way down, yeah. That's what all the show business is saying.

Jolson used to say it. We should... I'm going to interject right now, because Will, the... Will, how about the car, Will? The car's great. Oh, God bless you. Yeah, no scratches. Mine are dead, but... It's in a garage.

Did you find that stack of $1,000, that $100 bills in there? Yeah. I forgot to take them with me. I hope they're still in there. Anyway, thank you for doing that. Thank you very much. Give me the keys. Oh, the keys are at the parking lot. Yes. Your listenership is going to love that. You can snippy-snip. No, this is all authentic. This is gold, though. That exchange was gold.

Great radio shows, or in this case, a podcast, always have interesting off-camera people. And so we have Will the Unfortunate Intern is what I refer to him as, because he's got to spend 40 hours a week with me.

And he's like, what did I sign up for, exactly? Who was I in the other life that I have to do? Was I Gestapo? Bow in the Nazi? Do I have to do this now? Yeah, this is making it up. This is my penance? I mean, no offense. I think you're great. No, but I think we're mixing Hinduism and Catholicism there. That's what it is, yeah. The caste system and purgatory.

Hitlerism, what did you say? Hinduism and? Hinduism and Catholicism. Catholicism, that's where they kiss. Yeah. That's where the two things, religions, that's where the two religions kiss. That's how I look at it anyway, Sean. Well, I was, as I. That was the seat that. My shoe on the seat, that wasn't it? Oh. That noise. I don't think I was... We're actually going to emphasize that noise when we do the edit.

It's not a commercial for the older gentleman like myself, but I don't have this problem, thank God. But a guy in a hard hat goes, hey, fellas, you know, real hard hat, burly guy. If you're like me, and you leak a little...

You know, and it's for men's underpants, absorbent underpants, whatever you call them. Am I wrong that you did that really well? Like, that seems... Well, I was... That seems... I've been working on it. Did you audition and not get it? No, no. If I had auditioned, I would have gotten it. Okay, all right. No, no, I don't look like that, like a hard hat kind of guy. Oh, okay. Oh, it was the hard hat was the problem, not the makeup. Yeah, but I just wanted to make it real masculine.

Like, was it really masculine if you wear... Depends. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, which is nothing more masculine than that. Yeah, for sure. I think they had Shaquille O'Neal. He was promoting baby powder or something, and it's like, well, if Shaquille O'Neal uses baby powder to keep himself fresh.

Who am I, if a 7'4", 400-pound man can do it? So, it was the hard hat look that you didn't have, the leakage thing. Yeah. I didn't know that's what kept Shaquille fresh. We've all been wondering. Thank you. Yeah.

You know, so far, I've learned a couple of things here today. This is an educational program. Obviously. So, sometimes, even for our guests, they learn. I just want to listen. I'm the guest, and I just want to. I just want to sit back and listen. Oh, good. I'm glad, because I have a lot of notes on myself that I'd like to work through. My therapist and I have been talking about them, and my spiritual director and confessor. I have a whole team that helps me emotionally and spiritually as well.

This is a lot to keep together. You're five pennies trying to make a nickel over there, and doing it, man, and doing it. Succeeding. Succeeding. Success. Well, thank you. Thank you. So, we'll see. Thank you for your success. I'm going to try again to frame the conversation. Oh, yeah. Sorry. We'll see if it happens. It's my fault. If it doesn't. No, no, no. I got us off the subject. The good thing is, Will has missed nothing. Well, if you go to another garage, I don't feel comfortable with the garage you put it in, if you don't mind.

So, the good thing is you could be 20 minutes into this podcast, and you haven't actually missed a darn thing. Do you want to come back again next week? Yeah, no, we're done. I think I'm killing. No, I don't think so. You're dying, actually. And that was Tom Leopold, everyone, on The Walkout Podcast. Thanks for having me, Sean.

And next week- It's great to talk about all those other people. Next week, Tom talks about menopause. Menopause. Good or bad? We have to take a side. Inevitable? I say good. I don't care. I don't care if I'm, you know, canceled.

We're good. That was just our million-dollar equipment there. I dropped my wallet. Yeah. You heard that loud noise? So, we've got lots of gadgets. Okay, let's start doing the show. So, we were saying before that we get to be around interesting and notable people.

A lot of times when people ask, why do I... What are the reasons I like living in New York? And I always say it's because the people you can meet are just like nowhere else. Yeah, you trip to the corner, you've got a novel going on. Not a good one, always, but something like that. No, no, but... Oh, that's a drama. I mean, the other day, just as an anecdote, I... Let's go play indoor soccer, and there's Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively picking up their kid from soccer practice.

We're over at Chelsea Piers. Chelsea Piers, indeed. Oh, you hang out with Ryan. Or are you more of a Blake Lively guy? No, we used to hang out, but I like to stay up late. Oh, he's more of a... And he's one of those guys, you know, 10 o'clock, I got the early morning call. Yeah.

F you, brother, I said. Pardon my French. No, no, I think that's appropriate. I mean, I think... I don't even know who that is. I don't know the difference between him and Ryan Gosling. Are they the same guy? They might be. They've never been seen in the same location. One probably wakes up in the middle of the night going, I'm Ryan Gosling.

And just goes... Yeah, and goes, wait a minute, which one am I? They're both impossibly handsome. Yeah, and rich as can be. I know. Yeah. Well, I think what I found when I talked to Ryan is I said, oh, I know Tom Leopold, and he said, that guy, I can't keep up with him at the gym. He's a scamp. I can't. His workout routine. Well, when I work out, I work out. When I laugh, I laugh. When I eat, I eat.

And when I work out, I work out. Did I say that? You did, but it's because you work out so much. I work out too much. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and that's what Ryan Reynolds said. He said, you know what? I'm working out right now, and you can't even see. No, you're doing exercises. Don't look under there. When you dropped the headphones, that wasn't working. That was part of it, sure. That was a little bicep curl. Yeah, yeah. Ah, okay.

I was going to... My pulse is up to three. We have a blood pressure machine. Can we get that in here, actually? We're going to need to... Tom Leopold and the defibrillators, ladies and gentlemen. Defibrillators of soul. The good news is we're only five blocks from a hospital. The bad news is we're 17 floors below the earth. So, for us to get to the hospital... I was going to say, the good news is we're only heard in a five-block radius.

No one can hear you down here. No, I mean ever, the show itself. How many people are going to hear it? People can't hear you scream if you're down here. So, if you were to cook me and eat me, that's how I don't want to go. I don't know about you guys. I think Will and Jaya are more of a... More of a kill me and put me in a pot and eat me. No, they're more of a sashimi approach to things.

You want to be eaten by a shark, by a fellow human being, and I understand that. I'm sensitive to that. Yeah. So, we have a live audience today. This is great. This is more... I knew I got too high just before I got here. Yeah, well, and then the coffee is bringing me... Coffee is bringing me right down, right back down to depression again, where I feel most comfortable. Well, as a comic writer, that is where you need to be, right?

Yeah, it is where you always are. Did you get funnier when you became Catholic, or less funny, or the same? That's a good question. We have more material to work with. Well, I certainly had a whole other bunch of material to work with, that's for sure. I'd go into confession, and a woman cut me in line once at confession. Do you mind if I just cut me in line at confession?

And I'm thinking, is she going to confess that when she goes in? She had bundles, and she was on a tight schedule. There's a whole line, and she butts in front of me. Was it like, I have five items or less going through the grocery store? Yeah. She's like, I have a quick confession. It's not a big deal. Yeah. There should be an aisle. One of the priests should have eight items or less file. No, every time I- Eight sins or less.

I'll go to confession, and I'm in the line, and you're trying to gauge, okay, what kind of priest is this one, right? Yeah. Is he a- You want a nice one. He's not going to yell at you. Or, I'm really just worried about the turnaround time. Like, you're doing the math. Like, you get in line, and you see there are seven people in front of me. Okay, this one, that guy took three minutes. This one took five minutes. You're like, hmm, am I going to get it in before this guy's time is up?

But also, that guy's probably better than me, because look at all the talking he's doing. I never know what to say. This guy's doing a monologue in there, and you start feeling competitive with the guy. The confession in front of you. I do, anyway. So, this is the difference between a cradle Catholic and a Catholic convert.

I think it is more charitable to be quick in confession. Yeah. And when I see a guy going really long, I'm like, really? There's a line here, buddy. You don't need to blabber on. Just cut to the chase. Yeah. I killed my wife. Okay, now, get out of there. Get out of there. Yeah, like, whatever. Cut in line in front of this guy with an ascot. Yeah, because, you know, then I thought, be more Christian, and just think, wow, her sins were so bad, she had to get in.

And it wasn't just about, there's a sale at, you know. At Target, or whatever it is. I don't know. I mean, some classier place. She was much classier. She didn't shop at Target. I don't want to... Target, perhaps. Yes, I don't want to demean the woman. Yeah, she wasn't a Costco kind of girl. Oh, you get some great stuff at Target. My Spanx. Can you tell I'm wearing Spanx? Do you see the Spanx line through the pants? The whole point is that you don't know you're wearing the Spanx.

Exactly, thanks. That's the point. That's the whole thing. We're not supposed to disclose our little secrets. You shouldn't know. People shouldn't know you're wearing them. Yeah, I've got a whole... I can't tell yours are on, but I can see a little line there. Yeah, I'm wearing a girdle right now.

I'm wearing a posing strap. Mine's more like a Victorian, where they lace you up in the back, and they put it really tight. Yeah, that's time. Self-consuming, but worth it. You look great. I'm usually out here. Wow. But I'm 300 pounds down to 200. I'll take it as a personal compliment.

Bound yourself. So, what you're saying is you still have the same comedic instincts, but you have more material to draw from, I would think. You absolutely have more to draw from. And, I don't know, speaking for myself, I just keep getting funnier, which is good to have all this extra stuff to draw from. It's like, not that I'm boasting, but, I mean, I think I am, and it's like, you know, you want to maybe turn it off every now and then.

Like, I'll say to my wife, is this funny? She'll go, yeah, it's funny, but stop. It's funny, yeah, it's funny, but just stop. Five minutes. But, you know, you build... After all the years of sitting in rooms writing jokes, you know, it's very hard to turn off the, you know, the Unistick, the Unistick computer. If you're at Mass or, you know, praying the rosary, you get a good joke, you stop and write it down, I hope, on your iPhone. Yeah, you know, I don't think I've thought of a joke.

I mean, I'm trying to... You know, fill up the tank, you know, for the rest of the week, you know? I get too many ideas. Like, for me, when I have the chance to go to Adoration. Yeah, I like Adoration. That is always where I get, I talk about it, like, it's like having a business meeting with... With God, because I go in there just, you know, all right, I'm going to be good. I'm just going to pray and be quiet and let God speak to me.

Then he gives me a bunch of ideas, and I'm like, well, I have to write these down, man. So, I don't want to forget them, and so then you look rude. You ever ask the Lord to text you with the notes of the thing? Yeah, I actually... Maybe he has someone taking it down? Well, normally, Padre Pio is usually texting me from heaven on a regular basis.

With the stigmata, though, it's difficult with the stigmata to text. It is. Because there's holes. There's another extra added cross he had there. Yeah. They didn't figure that in. He wore the gloves, though, just over the fingers were out, which I think was a look that was way ahead of its time, by the way, action-wise. Well, that's why, because otherwise, the iPhone falls right through the hands. Yeah, well, a million things could happen.

And then, so I got, you know, those kind of divine intercessory prayer, if you will. But then you look like the jerk that's... Pulling out his phone during adoration, you're like, no, no, no, this is Jesus notes. No, you can't. Jesus notes. I once moved up to Connecticut, pretty much, most of the time.

I have a compound out there. A bunch of AK-47s. Racing horses. Oh, that kind of compound. Not a Waco compound. A fleet of poloponies, I mean, polo ponies. Yeah. Anyway. Sure. I signed up to come on Monday at 12, every Monday, for adoration, to be one of those people. So, there's always got to be somebody there.

Is there somebody there, like, at 3 a.m. till 7 a.m.? I've done that. You've done that? Watch. I was on the Path to Holiness. There was, like, a three-month window there when I was, like, 20. That was nice. It was a shining moment there, and then I was like, I'm going to... Sign up for the hardest time in the middle of the night. No, but it does happen. So, the worst thing is you get the 3 to 4 a.m. shift, and then the 4 a.m.

guy doesn't show, and you can't leave. No. Because adoration, somebody's got to be there with Jesus the whole time. Absolutely. And you're like, wow, that. Talk about having judgment for that 4 a.m. guy not showing up. Yeah. But now they've gotten a little bit better at it. I don't know if you know St. Joseph's in Greenwich Village now has a perpetual adoration chapel. Oh, okay. But they have a whole system with a check-in, and you have a little key card. Oh, really?

So, at least then I can text the guy or call him and be like, hey, you should be here right now. Oh, yeah. So, you go to this 12 o'clock, and what happens? Well, no, it's just interesting, you know? It's just a...

I started to think, like, if I was blindfolded and taken all around and then taken here, would I know I was... Because, you know, when you're there, you kind of feel like, whoa, if I were taken here and blindfolded and I walked by this room, I'd know where I was because of the... You know, it's like I remember... I was lucky enough to go on this tour with my friend, Lino Rulli. Do you know Lino, the Catholic guy on Sirius Radio?

I do. He's my buddy, and we went over and did a tour of Israel, because he does these pilgrimages. Pilgrimages? Pilgra. Pilgra. Programs. I think they call them programs. Anyway. That's when you know you're a communist. When the program from your musical is called a program, you know you're in. You're working for the Chinese Communist Party, ladies and gentlemen. That's just a little, you know, public service announcement. And for all, and for the Chinese government that's listening to this, we didn't mean any offense.

We don't mean any offense. Don't turn off our... Our phones. Please don't turn off our phones, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen of China. So, how do you explain adoration to people that have no idea what that is?

Well, the Holy Eucharist is on display, and I forget what the thing is called. Monstrance. Excuse me? Cradle Catholic. Oh. Monstrance. Monstrance. The beautiful case of the... The big Eucharist. It's always a big, big one. You couldn't fit it in your mouth all at once. No, no, no. You've got to break that one in. That's a lot of Jesus.

You don't want to... Get inside. I'd like to have that and have more Jesus. Overdose on Jesus. Yeah, like big mouths of size. Has anybody thought of that? Has anybody thought of making the host a big pizza matzah? Isn't that what Jesus said at the Last Supper? You could round it out, but it would be big, like a moon. You would hang on a theatrical set. I think they were making matzah ball soup when Jesus was like, you know what, actually, I'm going to die tomorrow.

We should probably do something significant on this Last Supper of ours. And they went with the Eucharist, and so we got the liturgy. There you go. There you go. It is like a booklet from Ikea about what happened, but this you can put together in your mind. You can at least put it together in your mind. Have you ever been able to put anything together from Ikea? Not to change the subject. No, no. I guess I am changing the subject. I think, have I?

That is what happens when you are funny, you know. You pull away from. Normal human conversation? From any kind of manners and any kind of cordiality. And that is your excuse? I am sorry. Funny, I don't have a choice. I can't help it. What do you want me to do, not make the world smile? What do you want me to do, cheat people out of what's rightfully theirs, my brilliance?

But yes, I don't like to brag, or I do, actually, but you've given me the opportunity. So, I have, in fact, assembled things from Ikea. Now, there were four pieces left over. You have? I assume those weren't important. No, right. And that little thing they give you, that little L-shaped bar that ... The Allen wrench. The little Allen wrench. The Allen wrench, see? I know all the terms. That's good. Alan Wench. I can't remember hardware. I don't know who Alan was, exactly.

Alan Wench Jones. Was he a twisted man? He was a man who liked to tinker. Ah, that makes sense. Back when tinkering was tinkering, my friend, if you know what I'm saying. And it was allowed, and you could show a woman a good time. Yes, Alan Tinker had a whole other meaning back then.

I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about anything. Nonsense. We haven't mentioned one celebrity that I... Word Association. I don't know what it is. So, adoration to the monsters. But it's interesting. So, as I mentioned to you, I'm fortunate to be developing this TV show with... I'll drop this first famous person's name, Doug Liman, the A-list Hollywood director. And he says to me... Well, how do you know? He's like, what do you feel? We're at Mass. We're at Mass together, on camera, and he's nudging me the entire time.

Is this a show? He's videoing this or whatever? Yeah, and in the pilot episode, we're at Mass together, and I'm, you know, trying to pray, and he showed up for Mass in a hockey jersey, which felt appropriate for him.

The crew? Well, we had the crew already. Okay. He's the talent here, so he just shows up whenever he wants. Oh, this is the camera from the 70s. Oh, yeah. 40-pound thing on your shoulder. Actually, we wheeled it in. That's where I stopped growing as an observational.

We had to wheel it in. It was so big, the camera. Yeah, and you wonder why all those cameramen are walking like the elephant man now. And Doug's saying, like, so what do you feel right now? I'm like, oh, well, it's like you have this presence, you know, and it's like a wound being healed. And he's like, yeah, but it just has a Pavlovian response. How do you know you would feel this way? And I'm like, first of all. Can we talk about this aftermath, you know, maybe?

I'm like, I'm trying to. He's like, what are you doing now? I'm like, I'm trying to pray. You can't feel anything because you're annoying me. I'm trying to pray. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. And so, it's funny. We've got time to feel. Will, my unfortunate intern, was a good man. I'll tell you what, though. If you do want your car parked somewhere, you're going to get Will. This could be a whole side hustle for you, my friend.

And gratis. I don't even want a piece. You want to give me a piece? Whatever's in your heart, whatever the Holy Spirit tells you. Maybe 15, 20%. Anyway. To be fair, we've been looking for social media man-on-the-street content. Yeah. Will parking cars. There you go. That's content, baby. Yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody is looking for a new angle.

It's like a mix of comedians and cars getting coffee, and the carpool karaoke meets... Kisses? Something else. You want everything to make out, I think. If everything would kiss, the world would just kiss. If everyone would just, you know, spin the bottle. Kiss Putin, if that's what it takes. I mean, I have kissed Putin.

That's the name of my other podcast. That's the name of your supplements. The supplements you're taking. Actually, it is the name of my heavy metal band. Yeah, that is a pretty good name. We are Putin. Good night, everybody. You just heard Putin. We will write that down. We are putting that in the show.

I Kiss Putin, that is our new heavy metal band. Yeah, and I liked it. That would be the second part of it. Just like Katy Perry. Yeah, exactly. Just a girl, and she liked it. Yeah. Just in case I needed to spell out the comedy. Well, you know, for the civilians, I understand. Yeah, if they don't ... You're filled with so many ... We call them the sheep when we're writing for them. Yeah, there's a lot of ... We'll put in a bah.

No, no, the audience is our highest. I demand the same excellence from my audience as I demand from myself. If people don't like it, they can stand the hell up and leave. Sorry, man. You just touched a nerve. Even though you didn't bring anything up at all, I brought it up.

Still, I hold you responsible. Seems like it's something you need to get out. Well, obviously. So, Doug was like, you can really feel something. And so, at the end of the day, Will, the unfortunate intern, and I were at the Coe Cathedral in Brooklyn.

And talk about a name drop, and we were, but we stopped in the, we are at a meeting next door to the cathedral. That is a good name dropping. I was at the co-cathedral, I do not like to brag. I was at Max's Diner at the name drop, underneath the expressway, yeah, down in, yeah. I know the pastor. I am just saying. Kind of a big deal. I do not want to be like for myself, but I just think you should know that.

So, we are in the. We had a meeting next door to the church, and then we stopped in the church afterwards, and I was like, this feels off. And they were prepping for a classical concert that was going to happen, so they had removed the Blessed Sacrament. They removed the Eucharist from the tabernacle, and I was like... Wow, really? That is exactly what I am talking about. Why do I feel not as much? Then you found out that they removed the Eucharist.

Yeah, and so, yeah, I mean, it is a fair question for guys like Doug to have. Know to feel that way because you walk into a church, or in the Catholic Church, we have the red candle near the tabernacle to let us know Jesus is in the house.

But I do recognize that. How was that for you from pre-post-conversion to, like, I've got this special feeling when I go into this chapel? Yeah. How do you describe that to somebody that thinks we're crazy? More and more, the preponderance of those experiences or events, for me, was heavy at the beginning.

I mean, not that they're not, I don't still have them, like little, you know, I hate to promote another guy's book, but Godwinks, or whatever you might say. Always right on time. So, what was the question again? The question was, how do you, how do you explain that? How will he park the car if he parked it near any other cars? Yeah, no, no, no. You've got an entire garage to yourself.

No, the question was, how do you explain this thing to people that think that it's crazy? One, that we believe in this piece of bread that's the body, blood, soul, and divinity of... Christ, that we go into this little chapel and we feel something. Well, I had had enough, what I would consider supernatural experiences, that made me not only want to convert, but there were so many of these little incidences, insida, as I like to call them, that finally I'm saying, okay, you're right, stop.

I got it. You're scaring me, you know. Enough already with the thing. All right, I'll convert to Catholicism, you know. And, you know, it all came out of a time of one of my children where it was unwell.

And, but also, I'm very much a Jew. You know, I'm still, I'm like Roger Maris with the asterisk. He used to have the asterisk. Oh, yeah. And Babe Ruth, and he'd have the asterisk. So, I'm like Catholic with an asterisk, you know? Okay. But, you know. Catholic with a Jewish asterisk. Yeah, yeah.

Like a Jewish star. Oh, Jesus was Jewish. I don't know if you heard. Write that, will the intro. People don't talk that much about that. Jesus. I got to. Yeah. This is a big, this is big. Jesus was. Jesus. A, capital J. Oh, capital J. Oh, yeah. Both Jesus and Jew. There you go. Yeah, right. And if you say him, you got to use a capital H. Am I right, Will? All right. We got an amen. We've never had that before.

Can I get another amen? Can I get a witness? No, okay. I can't get a witness. I got an amen, though. I'm halfway there. And then I wrote a book called... My mother, the chimp. No, I'm sorry. I've read that. That's why we're here. It changed my life.

Turned out my mother was also an orangutan. Well, my mother, I always wanted to... I'm definitely cutting that out when I just said my mother was a monkey. Well, I always like to make up... I have so many real credits.

I've been so fortunate in show business, whatever. But I like to make up credits of shows I didn't. That would sound great in a funny show about TV, you know, like My Mother the Chimp, do you think? I wrote a book called Milton Marty, the Longest Lasting, Least Successful Comedy Writing Team in Show Business History. These 90-year-old comedy writers who are always fighting, and they're the worst, horrible guys, joke-stealing, terrible guys, like Laurel and Hardy, but just... You know, gross, and I wrote it with my friend Bob Zahn, and I forgot why I brought it up.

We were talking about, you know, fake titles. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. My mother, Chimp, and so forth. Yeah, fake titles, yeah. And, you know, another one is Bridge for Jimmy, about a 14-year-old boy who dreams of someday having his own suspension bridge.

What boy hasn't had that dream? Yeah. I'd watch that. Things like that, or happy for 12 minutes. Where somebody is given a check for a million dollars, and in the 12 minutes it takes them to get to the bank to cash a check, they find out it is all just a joke, a hoax. Oh. Yeah, twisty.

Roll the old twisty-roo there in the end. They did that show on MTV. What was it called? With Ashton Kutcher? Oh, yeah, yeah. Pranks or something. Prank or whatever it was called. It is like that. Yeah, cruelty, I think, is what we call it. That is another... Sadism, I think. Yeah. I think the kids call it sadism. Yeah, it's, yeah. They keep up with their lingo.

I think they, yeah, I don't know what they call it these days, but. They don't, they don't know what they call it. They're so busy shooting that marijuana in their arm. Yeah, that is how they do it now, just straight in. Straight in. You see them twisting something around their arm, and then just shooting the marijuana in. Yeah. Well, they do it in the gummy form now. I don't care what they call it anymore.

Microdosing. My day, you got a quart of $3 gin, you took off your pants, you sat on the curb, and that was a Saturday night. Yeah. You know, that's all. No big deal. I don't know what I'm talking about. Cut all that out. Cut all that out. That's it? A quart of gin? That's it? That's all it took you? That's just to get me dressed. Okay, I was going to say, I feel like your reputation precedes you. Then at night, I go to the hard stuff.

I start with gin. I start with a really cheap gin. It's like a warm-up. A $3 gin is as good as expensive gin. Well, it's like stretching. You've got to stretch the muscles. You can taste a little metallic, kind of, you know, Aaron Brockovich-type stuff in the water. Yeah, it's like a... It'll get you there. It's an additive. It'll get you where you want to go. Unleaded fuel, is what it is.

Yeah, exactly. So, do you think... Well, Catholics and Jews tend to have a particular notion and understanding of suffering, which I think, I mean, the Catholic Church has a whole theology around purpose and meaning of suffering, right? I'm doing it right now. Yeah. Just waiting for this question.

Listen, this is time off purgatory, my friend. But going back, I don't mean to interrupt the story, even though I am, I guess, even though I actually am. But you were saying, if you were to describe to the director what it feels like, that feeling that you could almost feel blindfolded if you didn't know where you were or didn't smell of... You know, incense or something. And I do this for incense, the camera. I'm shaking it. For those of you who are listening by fillings in your teeth.

Yeah. He's gesticulating wildly. There was a guy, and just a little parallel to that. We had this little house on Long Island, and the kids were growing up, and we always, you know, you went to a Christmas party at this guy's house, and he worked in the insurance business or something, and, you know, I stood out a little bit because I was writing for Seinfeld and Cheers and all those sort of things. Whatever I wrote for, I wrote for. It's not important, but anyway.

No, no, we put it in the intro, so everyone knows. Seinfeld and Cheers and Will and Grace. Anyway, it's not the point of the story, but anyway, one Christmas party, it's It's mobbed. I'm starving, finally. My wife and I get to, and the kids get to this Christmas party, and his name was Paul, anyway, Paul Henry, but he's a really nice guy. You can cut out the last name in there, but he, and just going for the grub, you know, there's turkey and stuffing and marshmallows and stuff, and he goes, Tom, Tom, come here, come here.

This is his house, and I'm going to line it up to what it feels like to be an adoration, but it's going to be a terrible. Metaphorically. Okay, I'm ready. So, don't get too excited. Don't get too excited. It's not very good. Okay. Yeah. But he got me to the side. This is a story my wife always reminds me of.

And I go, yeah, what's up, Paul? He goes, you okay? I say, you okay? He goes, yeah, yeah. Listen, Tom, you're a comedy writer, and I want you to explain the creative process to me. Sure. That should be easy. I mean.

Yeah. I said, what? I want, you know, I am serious, Tom. People coming in, singing, drinking, noise, people taking all the food away, you know, while he is talking to me, I can see them removing some ham and stuff I will not be able to get. Anyway, explain the creative process to me. I said, Paul, I cannot, I do not think I can. No, no, I am serious, man. I am serious. Explain the creative process to me.

I said, Paul, I don't know. No, Tom, please. I said, if you're a friend, you'll do it. So, then I thought, oh. And then I tried to really think what it was like, what the creative process was like, and then I just started to get this feeling. But before I could say anything, he's, I said, explain the creative process to me. And I go, I'm thinking. Then he looks, and the door opens, and some new people come in. And he goes, Charlie!

When? And he's off. He's gone off. He didn't even leave. He finally gets me to explain what, you know. I'm not going to leave before you explain to me the meaning and purpose of Christ becoming president of the Eucharist. So, if you could just do that for us. I was trying to really feel and express what it's like for this thing to happen, which is kind of like a gift, which is what...

Sitting with the Eucharist is. I call it sitting with the Eucharist. I am sitting with the Eucharist tonight. Yeah, well, Jesus take the wheel, you know. Yeah, Jesus take the rolls. Like my grandmother used to go to a restaurant, and the first thing she would do when they would bring the bread was she would open her purse and she would slide all the bread off the plate into her purse. And then ask for a refill?

She would bring a refill. Nice. Yeah. Other than that, she was the greatest. Other than that, I mean... I mean, that was fine, you know? Yeah, that was the only thing she stole? Well, you never know. I try to tell myself it's for the pigeons or something, but... We were getting a very good cat food to eat, Grandma. We weren't getting her the cheap stuff. No, no, only top flight out of the can. It was called Slick. Yeah. It wasn't expensive, but things don't have to be expensive.

No, no, just because it's real food doesn't mean it's... Bad food. Yeah, exactly. I prefer frozen food. How about you? I haven't eaten in weeks, I don't know. I'm just, I was... I've been fasting in anticipation of this interview. Oh, okay. Did you have any kind of, like, psychedelic?

Well, no. I mean, unlike our friend Rob Long, who's gone and done ayahuasca. I know, and I want to do it. I want to do it, too. All right, so I actually have a question about that, because, like, I was wondering. I don't know what it is.

So, like, as a... In old days, we just called it getting high, you know? It wasn't so fancy. You didn't have to travel to Peru. I didn't even go to Woodstock. Like, I'm going to go to Peru? You're like, I just went to Greenwich Village. Now I've got to go to Peru? I'm going to go above 14th Street. I'm going to go to Peru? I'm going to go downtown. I've got to go down to South America. I've got ties longer than that.

Actually, it's a legitimate question, because Doug, for our TV project, has said we should try doing more things that make you uncomfortable spiritually or whatever. He's like, we should go do ayahuasca in Peru. And I'm like... And I'm like, I'm actually down with that. I don't care, but I'm wondering, like, you know, as two devout Catholics as we are, Thank you. Thank you for your notice. Have you started the show yet? Has the show started yet? It's actually over. We stopped filming a while ago.

The show was over half an hour ago. This is just indulgence. It's an indulgence. It's an indulgence. It's a partial indulgence. Is there any conflict in your mind of being a Protestant Catholic and doing ayahuasca? Listen, I don't get my teeth cleaned without getting the nitrous oxide.

Any excuse to get high, legal excuse, if you want to be really candid. Okay, all right. So, sure, you know. But is it like... I don't have any problem with that. I haven't done it. I did mushrooms way, way, way back, way in the past, and laughed so hard.

Richard Belzer and I. Oh, I know that name, sure, yeah. He just died, what, a couple of years ago? Yeah, he was a good friend of mine. He was Munch, but in Law and Order. Law and Order for like 20 years. Yeah, longest playing the same role of anybody ever in the history of television. But before that, he was stand-up, you know, and I knew him.

Forever. We did mushrooms together once, like 40 years ago, and we just stood in the bay window of his manager's townhouse on a Saturday night. These mushrooms came on, and I remember thinking, my dad had recently passed, and I remember thinking, I can either start crying for about my dad, or I can just laugh my ass off with the bells. I went for laugh my ass off with the bells. I'm very proud of that moment.

And everybody that walked by, the bells was working, you know, by working, I mean just saying insulting, horrible things. Look at this guy, nice, nice tie, you know, that kind of stuff, you know, and just tears of laughter.

So, my experience with that sort of psychedelia, psychedeli. Psychedeli. Which is on 2nd Avenue, East Village. Yep. Wonderful pastrami and wonderful people. Yeah, and you can get some ayahuasca if you go down to the sub-basement. They have the split the sandwich with a friend deal down there. Make a friend, split a sandwich. We could split a sandwich with an entire stranger. Well, we could take your ride share over there afterwards. Oh, yeah. Did I get a ticket?

I did? Oh, no. No, but I didn't get a ticket from the cops. You didn't get a parking ticket. You are not going to pay yourself like some $300. Well, do what is in your heart. I feel like he was burying the lead there, that you had actually gotten a parking citation. I got away with it. Thank you, Will. Thank you again, Will.

And there is going to be a nice, you know, you like individual slices of cake. I am going to get you one of those as a thank you. Not a whole cake. Not a whole cake. No, just... No, just moving my car. It was not like it could be a lung or anything. Yeah, and is it going to be two slices? Is it going to be five? It's going to be one, is what it's going to be. Oh, okay. He didn't give me an eye.

Yeah, he just... He just moved my car, you know? He just, okay. So, we're cool with doing an ayahuasca, then? I don't know if I would be cool. I don't know. I don't know that I'd want to do that sort of thing with a bunch of strangers in a big field, you know, wearing my trail diaper.

And a feather in my tuchus, you know, whatever they do out there, you know. That's exactly it. I don't want to do that fully dressed at a five-star hotel. I don't want to do that. Okay, all right. That's really why I didn't go to Woodstock. I was in New York City. I'm going to sit out there in the rain and the mud and everything. I'll have a transcendent moment in the tub at home. How about that?

So, we're not going to Peru, is what you're saying? And also, why do you have to go to Peru? I don't know. It's where they keep the ayahuasca. No, I think it is part of the… So, that Peruvian ayahuasca? What is it anyway? A root of some kind? I think so, and I think… I imagine it is kind of like a pilgrimage, right? Oh, I see. You journey to Lourdes to find healing. You journey to Peru to get high and find your inner child.

I see. Every religion has its… that walk that you… and you walk the rest of it on your knees. What is that place? The work walk. My wife and I want to do that, but… Was that Medjugorje? No.

There's Lourdes, there's Fatima. Fatima, they do it. Well, Fatima, but no, this is where you walk to this chapel, and people come for all season to walk the way, the way of... Oh, you're talking about the Camino? Yeah, the Camino, yeah. Ah, okay. Yeah, so actually, when we were in, Doug and I went to Fatima, and he was seeing these people, some of them walk on their knees or...

Is it walking if you're on your knees? Is it still walking if it's not on your feet? That's a good question. I don't know. That's more for a doctor to answer than me, I'm a comedy writer. Yeah, okay, fair point. But let me say this about it. No, no, I... But let me... Let me answer it anyway. So, he's watching, and he just thinks this is crazy, and then we had met this woman... Oh, that people had to walk on their knees, the thing?

Yeah, and he's like, this is... Do they give you knee pads or anything? There's no, I didn't see anybody supplying that. We have to bring your own. And we met this woman who had brought her disabled child with her all the way from Scotland, and he's like, why do you have to come from Scotland? You can't pray in Scotland? Because the notion of a pilgrimage to him was kind of like absurd. Well, that's the show should be, filming you two guys with him asking you all this stuff while you're trying to do the show, the show within the show.

I don't want to tell you how to run your show, man. That is the show. Yeah, it's a good show. It's effectively me trying to introduce him to people having meaningful experiences, and then he interrupts constantly with these absurd questions. Yeah, funny. Like elbowing me during mass and asking me to answer questions.

We met with an expert with the Shroud of Turin. Wow, really? Oh. So, the top expert in the world. He literally teaches Shroud studies. Wow. At the Universidad de Europa, the European... Paso de Bejul. Paso de Bejul, yeah, exactly. The European University. That's a joke like a comic would have done in the late 50s, you know, when you could do... And now a Chinese man, ladies and gentlemen. You know, back when you could do impersonations of other people's, you know... Take my wife, please.

Oh, yeah, or you could do dialect comedy. So, this old Italian guy goes, hey, what you doing? Now, you get canceled. No, we are not allowed to do that. Our show was actually just canceled right when you did that. I just got a notification. Get out of here.

No, I am loving it. You can't get out of here. I am loving every minute of it. I particularly love this potted thing. Is this real cactus? Or is this like some rubber product? No, what is amazing is that you put your hand right in the cactus and you felt nothing. Is that the poison cactus? That is ayahuasca. That is actually ayahuasca. Oh, man. Hey, kill the pigs.

Kill the pig. Sacrifice. Put the piece right on the wall. A fatted calf. Yeah, during the hippie days. Maybe it is like a prodigal son situation when you do the ayahuasca. You know, you're welcomed back into your father's arms, and, you know. Is that what it is? I lost my dad last year. Is that what it is? I think there's a lot of, like, finding your inner child and, you know, reconnecting with your... Wounded.

Whatever, yeah. So, I would be curious to do it from a... Okay, let's go. All right, well, I turned you around quick on that one. How soon can you be packed? Well, I actually... I've got to tell my wife I'm going to go. Will packs my bags for me now. It's weird. Well, I got the car. We can just drive it out to the airport.

He's only been inserting for me for a month. Well, I'm not going to Peru, for God's sake. My wife would kill me if I took a plane ride that far. So, Will has to get the ayahuasca and bring it back from Peru. Yeah, just pack it up, strap it on with tape onto your torso. Onto your person. Into your person. Get a couple of pounds of it. They're not going to notice it.

Yeah, and honestly, like... That whole thing. The TSA thing is not... Nobody really checks anymore. They don't care anymore. They just let you right in. Yeah, it's... Make some hash, too, for the hippie people that we care so much about. So, Rob Long is one of our friends in common. Yeah. So, I have a list of people that we have in common. So, Rob Long is the first, our good friend, who will explain more about how you guys were comedy rooms together.

The funniest man on the planet Flay. Is that what planet he's from? He's from the funniest planet out there, whatever it is. I'm no astrologer. By the way, you're a Libra, if I'm reading you correctly. I am not, but thank you. I am, I am. Oh, it's about you. Thank you for asking. My birthday is this month. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I'm a 42 regular, by the way. That's a great... If you're thinking of getting me in. We do actually have everyone sized before they get here.

Do you get jackets from being on the show? Yeah, yeah. No, it's a full custom suit. I send you to my guy. It's so funny, because I'm going to a wedding in December. Yeah, I need a suit. There you go. Yeah, the Lord works.

You know what? It's weird, though. Seersucker. You brought it back to the Lord? Oh, Jesus. Huh? Praise Jesus. But Seersucker only suits. Oh, no. That's our rule. No winter suits, eh? No, we only do Seersucker suits. Don't you think you're missing half the market?

Well, this isn't a market. It's just what we give our guests for being on the show. But you've got to get a vendor to give you that. Yeah, and the Sears Hacker guy was like, no, I want to give these things away for free. Can I get a robe instead of a jacket?

What do you call the show, by the way? What's the name of the show? The Walk-Up. The Walk-Up? Can I get a Walk-Up? Like, bathrobe, like, prizefighter wear into the ring, with it written on the back? Well, we have the walk-up. Tommy, walk-up winner. I don't know if you've seen these hot pants where they put the, in glitter on the butt. It says the walk-up. Oh, hot pants. Yeah, so, well, that's what I have for you.

First time we've done it, but thank you for giving me your size, so now I know how to get it. 40, 42. Well, call the... Hot pants! Call the hot pants. That was a really great song. What is your regular?

Did James Brown sing Hot Pants? You're asking the Gen Z guys? Well, James Brown. Everybody should know about James Brown. Well, they've heard of this guy, but asking him deep cut references of which songs he sang? Come on.

I'll talk to the boy any way I damn please. Don't take it from me. He respects me. Does he? He wants respect for you during this radio broadcast. This is going out live to 200 countries. Going out live to all the people who are homebound.

I'm talking about you, bushy-haired scientist, or you, one-legged newsboy. I don't know what I'm talking about. You Antarctica scientists. You Antarctican scientists with a blue frozen nose about to fall off. You, good old-fashioned American, apple pie-and-the-girl-next-door type people. Truck driver. Is that so wrong, Sean?

Well, then, let the Lord strike me. Oh. Oh, we've lost our guest. Oh, I'm back, everyone. I'm back from the bit. Just a mini-stroke. I was released from the bit and allowed to come back to the conversation. Thank you. Come get me after the show. Pick me up again after the show.

So, I met Rob Long probably 10, 12 years ago. He spoke at the Harvard Club. No, it was the Yale Club, because he's Yale. He's a Yale guy. He's a Yale guy, yeah. So, he spoke at the Yale Club. I have never been to Yale. Never let you forget it, either.

That's their job. If I had gone there, I certainly would tell everybody. All right, you went to Yale. I mean, you know. I've been to the Yale Club. That's as far as I've gotten. I have a Yale lock. Oh, those are good. Those would make me, yeah. So, he spoke there. What did he talk about? Writing a comedy? Something like that. And I just was like, I like this guy. At that point, I had never, and still, I am still new to this kind of media, film and TV world, but we just struck up a friendship, and we would have coffee once every two or three months for the past Well, let us go after.

Well, let us have a lovely, because I owe Rob a lovely lunch in the village. Okay. We'll do a thing. You'll pay, whatever. Whatever you feel in your heart. I mean, whatever. You know what? Whatever God speaks to you about it. Yeah, but I do everything on camera now. Maybe he'll say pay it, probably. Everything's on camera now, so as long as lunch is here, and Rob's sitting there, and we're... Oh, we can do it right here and eat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I eat loud, though. I've got to warn you. Well, that's what we will... We won't have the cough button. We'll have the... My dad would say, you eat too loud. The chewing button. Oh, yeah, I can have a cough button. Yeah, we'll make sure that you're muted for all of your mastications. Any noises that might come out. Yeah.

Gesticulations or mastications, whatever they may be. Whoa, I know. I'm on probation. Vocabulary, everyone. Let me congratulate you. Look it up. Let me transmogrify you for a minute, if I may. Look it up. It's not something you confess. Because you're in comedy, it doesn't mean you're an uneducated person.

I think I'm living proof of that. Well, and in fact, Rob Long, I don't know if you know, he went to Yale. I hadn't heard. Rob, I forgot Rob tells that every time. And Conan O'Brien went to Harvard. And his wonderful partner, Dan Staley. Those two guys, man alive.

We'd work until like one in the morning, and then the other really funny guys, Tom O'Shannon and Tom Anderson, and I got so spoiled thinking, this is going to be what it's like. It's going to be a room of the funniest damn people, that even though you're working still really late at one in the morning, you go home and you're bouncing off the walls.

Laughing so hard all day, and when you are so exhausted after five days a week of working from 10 to 1 to 2, over nine months, Chinese food coming in, bloating you up after every run through. It's great. I forgot where I was going with it, but... Because you guys met on... You said you were writing for Seinfeld, and then you went over to Cheers? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cheers was a much predated Seinfeld by... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the 11th year, and it was going to keep going, and I love these guys, and they wanted me over there.

And then in the middle of it, Whoopi Goldberg is dating Ted Danson, and apparently the way I heard it was she... Oh, that is very nice of you. Oh, did you need more coffee? No, no, no. I am just kidding. Will the unfortunate intern. Do we need more coffee? No, no. I am good.

He can fetch that as well. Could you take my car and go get us some coffee? Oh, no, he has very particular coffee he likes. It is not anywhere nearby. Yeah, it is near Newark, not that close to Newark, a little west of Newark. It is a little Colombian coffee shop.

Yeah. They put ayahuasca in it. It is a little limp. They put ayahuasca in it. That is why, which we know is good. Well, it has got to be like mushrooms or psychedelic things. I would do mushrooms again, I think. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm open to it, is what I'm saying. And when we have Rob on the show, we can ask about it as I want. Well, we can ask Rob about it, because I'm very interested in it.

That's a micro-dosing thing. That's an interesting thing. Yeah, I think that's just people trying to not at all be present throughout the day, I think is my guess. It's like, I don't want to get super high at the end of the day. I just want it to be a little bit high all day long and completely detached. Keep a glow going.

I think, honestly, I mean, this gets into a deeper question. Ready. You're not going to start with the deep questions all of a sudden. Do you want to hold on to something, or are you good? Now you're starting with the deep questions? Yeah.

You thought we were talking an hour already. The ascot and the ayahuasca, you thought were the deep questions, but no, no, no. I've got more. I'd rather smoke my ascot. Look at all these papers I have with notes, words. Look how much I've done. I can't believe it. I'm surprised I'm only this old. But, like, I think it's interesting because I think this... This desire for people doing whatever it is, ayahuasca or mushrooms or whatever, psychedelics or just microdosing throughout the day.

I think the desire for people to have some sort of sense, some sort of engagement with the transcendent is in all of us, right? Yeah. This idea to get outside of yourself, and I don't want to say I applaud that. ...particular, you know, practice, but I get the instincts, and I think it was Chesterton who talked about, like, you know, in terms of people that are on their way towards God, the guy that's knocking on the brothel is a lot closer to God than the lukewarm, because at least he's trying, he's pursuing something, and, you know, he might keep pursuing something until he finds God.

The person that at least is trying ayahuasca or trying this, I feel like is... On the path towards the mystical, and I think oftentimes people, that's the thing that I'm finding lately that connects the most with people. I thought... So, being in New York, as I have for 12 years, as a weird, you know, devoutly practicing Catholic and doing a lot of projects in the church, when people find out you're a Catholic in New York, they're like, wait, for real? Like, you actually go to church?

Yeah. And I would, for a while, I think I tried to make it more accessible somehow, or like, you know, whatever. In a bullpen, yeah. But honestly, the weirder stuff, the more weird, the more they like it. That's what they're attracted to. Like, I start talking to people about adoration, or incorruptible saints, and mystics, and Padre Pio with his stigmata, or in the Shroud of Turin. They're way more interested, because I think they're, give me something radical and crazy to believe in.

Don't tell me it's all just normal, and it fits into some logic. It's not logical. Well, they're looking, you know, I remember when I was... It's been a while now since I converted, but when I would tell people about it, they'd like get me at a party, all kind of like my friend, and say, you're really doing it? But like kind of really wanting to, like it's a naughty thing that they're asking me or something, but also really interested in like, well, I know you, and if you're doing it, it must be me.

There's something, not that I'm not so fabulous, I'm just fabulous enough, but. But I can say also the interest and wanting. To possibly maybe believe something or other in their worshipful eyes. Well, I think it's because... I say worship the ground I fell down on. I worship the ground you fall down on. Yeah, well, I saw that there's an icon of you that I pray to. I have candles in front of it, which I hope that's okay. It's more than okay.

It is next to a voodoo doll of you. So, I don't know if that cancels it out or not. You don't pull any of that hoodoo on me. You know, listen, I'm a little confused. When I went to Haiti, a lot of stuff happened. You know what you do in your questioning? Yeah, I'm searching. Your voodoo questioning.

I'm voodoo curious, I think is what they call it. Oh, I'm the voodoo questioner. Yeah, I think it's voodoo curious is what they say now. Voodoo curious. What they're looking for is like, when I talk to folks, I think they're... They want to believe there's something transcendent out there, because there's a certain amount that you can never explain about your own existence, about your own day-to-day, and certainly when we talk about suffering as well, that's where it trips people up, and if you are able, I always felt like I was so fortunate to be You know, I'm a cradle Catholic, and my brother's a priest, and I got to be around, and I fortunately never left the faith, but I always felt like I was in possession of this kind of, you know, this tool bag that maybe other people didn't have the resources to pull from.

It doesn't mean I'm always the best at using all the tools, but at least I have access to them, and I think, you know... That's the problem, though. You know, you never... I guess the word's scrupulosity. Which is where it is.

Just made up? No, no, it is a word in the church, you know, where you can, it's a hard problem because half of you, you know, more than half of you, more than half of me is always going, ah, I did that wrong. Oh, I shouldn't do that. Oh, I did that wrong. That's what these notes are. These are all the things you've done wrong in your life. I've written down.

The things I did right is just on that little index card. Yeah, actually, no, it's written on my palm here. It's written on my pupils. Speaking of pupils, the lady of Guadalupe, how about when the pupils of her eyes. The show Juan Diego. Now, there was a man.

This show is Juan Diego and the pupils of her eyes. No, that is wild. So, we should probably explain it for people, because they are probably like, what the heck are these people talking about? You just bring up pupils, and you go ... Pupils of the eye. This is when it is like inside baseball. This is like inside Catholicism, where it is like, you say pupil, Juan Diego, and I am like, Our Lady of Guadalupe. This is a weird language. Yeah, it is inside baseball.

Inside a conundrum. So, much like your Twitter bio. Yeah, so Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City, St. Juan Diego in the 1400s, 1500s. He has a tilma, which is basically a work cloth that he would have used to work in the fields. A syrupy type thing.

I have some on sale on the way out. That is, no, no, seersucker only, remember? Seersucker only. Unless it says walk up on the... Real seer in it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so, he has this vision of Mary, which I have all... I don't know if you have, though. I have those all the time.

Oh, no, I don't. I wish I did. Yeah, so that's sad for you. But he picks up these roses that are out of season, and they're... They aren't even natural to that part of the country. To that region, yeah. They're like Spanish, in fact, I think. Yeah. Now we've lost everybody again. They're really like, okay, can you just give us the context? No, just give me the weather and let me get out of here. So this 72 and partly cloudy.

And he shows up to... ...to the bishop and says, you know, this woman wants me to show you these, to give you these flowers. He opens the tilma and appears this image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which is this indigenous woman on his tilma, which is now, 500 years later, not disintegrated at all. Fires have been all around it, church burned down, and they can't, they don't know how it got painted because the paint isn't on the fabric. It hovers just above, and they couldn't have used a process like that.

Back when I was painting tilmas, anyway. No, no. I used a roller. In the 16th century. Yeah, that's how primitive I was. I was in the tilma painting business. That's how you got your start in show business. That's how I used to pick up the ladies. Would you like, lady? Would you like your tilma painted? Here we are. By a very successful young gentleman.

Yeah, there's no paint or pigment on the actual, and this is. Organic material that should naturally disintegrate after 50 years or something. Proven it was from the time of our Lord. Oh, you're talking about the Shroud now. We switched to the Shroud. Oh, no, yeah, that's right. Our Lady of Guadalupe. Our Lady of Guadalupe, yeah, that's a whole other, yeah.

So, but, yeah. And she changes color as you walk from one side of the room to the other. It's wild. You've seen... I've never been there. Oh, so you're just making things up. Maybe on the way back from Peru, and we were still high from the Hiawatha. Well, this is becoming... The Hiawatha. Much more expensive trip than I was. Hey, honey, hey, honey. Will there be that kind of chanting? Will there be, like, Native American chants and stuff? Oh, absolutely, yeah.

That is exactly how it works. Hey, Sean, you want some more Oscar Wilde? Oscar Wilde? What is it called? Oscar Wilde? Oscar Wilde. That is what gave him so much. I am so high, I am calling it Oscar Wilde. Oscar Wilde probably, he was doing Oscar Wilde. He definitely took it. Come on, that guy. That is what, you know. He was, I think, a reluctant Catholic as well, if I am not mistaken.

He got a bad deal. He did, yeah. He was not accepted into the press. He got a black eye in the press, I'll say. Put it mildly. But, there's a good bar in Flatiron named after him, so we should check that out. See? Something good comes out every time. And I guess that brings us all the way back to where we started. Which was? I have no idea. I wasn't listening. I wasn't listening until about five minutes ago.

So, Rob Long, good friend. And then, here are the other names. I'm putting a Rob Long in a square peg. Yeah, and I'm, yeah, no, I, um, so, so Rob Long, we have a friend of common, Father Leo, Oh, my Father Leo. And say his last, Padalighog? I was on the radio with him one week, one day a week for two years, and I said to him near the end when we finally got canceled, I said, and I still can't say your name.

Yeah, so... Father Leo Patalinghong. Okay, gotcha, because he's Filipino? You know, it's when you think one vowel's... Over. A new one begins. You think, just go with Father Leo. I call him Father Lee. My personal Father Leo. I love him. Two years. Why did you get canceled? Was it the bath town? It was only on one day a week, so it is hard to kind of build an audience, which we kind of did. I had just become Catholic when my dear friend, and a big reason why I converted to Catholicism, was Father Jonathan Morris.

Mm-hmm. Who is now retired from the priesthood. I guess he figured he couldn't top bringing me in. No, he's just Johnny. He couldn't top bringing me into the religion, so he quit, you know. Tap out. But he has two beautiful children, a lovely wife now. Yeah, that's great. He's still very rich. I've known Jonathan a long time as well. Oh, okay. I love him. Anyway, all of a sudden, you know, he brought me through, and I got me, you know, I was Brought into the faith, and then a while later, he calls me and says, look, they put me in charge of the Catholic radio station on Sirius.

I want you to do a radio show. And I go, John, Father John. I don't think he's still a father. I don't know anything. I've been a Catholic for two weeks. I don't know anything. You don't seem to know a lot more now. You know, I'm ADD, and I went through the RIA or whatever it was. RCIA, yeah. Yeah. The RCA building? I went to the RCA building. That was my mistake. That was my mistake. Yeah, wrong point. Yeah, I was not so close, kind of.

You showed up to 30 Rock, and you're like, I'm here to meet Jesus. That's one building over, sir. I learned about it when the locusts came down from the moon. No, no, 30 Rock, not 30 Rock. You want to go over to the dome of the rock. No, but I know you don't know anything, so I'm going to put you on with this really funny...

And we did a thing, what do we call it? Oh, I don't remember, but we had so much fun. You know, we kind of built a little bit of an audience. I have it in my notes. Hold on. I have it in my notes. We have it in my notes. Don't I have the name of the show? Hold on.

Entertaining Truth. Entertaining Truth. See? I never really liked it. I really did. We really did research. Leo liked it. I didn't want to crush him, hurt his feelings. Well, in fairness, Will, the unfortunate intern, actually did the research. I just... We were up at Sirius, and there was like 20 million booths.

Little booths with engineers in them, and radio shows going on. So, all like a hundred little booths of different radio shows going on at the same time. So, if I went during a break of our show, I have to go to the bathroom or something, I could never find my way back in time. So, Leo would be on saying he's not back, he can't find his way back, and I legitimately could never find my way. The bathroom, you had to go around these pods and through these other studios, and so finally I got back in.

He goes, where were you? I said, well, I got lost. For the last five minutes, I've been on the Broadway show channel, and it turns out I'm opening tonight in kinky boots. Yeah, well, that sounds about right. I saw you that day. You were filling in. You were filling in, yeah. Yeah, I was filling in.

Sadly, you're not wearing the kinky boots. No, but I am wearing a padded bra. Yeah, which is what Rob Long did promise me, that if you showed up. There would be an ascot and a padded broad, and he said optional on the kinky boots. The Spanx. Again, I don't see this. I don't need to know. That's not a plug for the Spanx people to send me any Spanx, but if you want. That was another thing about Seinfeld that was nice. If we said something like Drake's Cakes, they'd send us crates of Drake's Cakes or Pez, you know?

So, you didn't want to name-check Ferrari? No, but then you started saying things you wanted, like sneakers, certain kinds. You put things in the show that you wanted. I would start talking about Rolexes if I was you. Yeah, yeah, see, well, I didn't know. I mean, come on. I didn't, I wasn't. Jerry, you know, gets a Rolex from a friend of Kramer's. Jerry, and all his writers get Rolexes. Yeah. That, actually, in this script.

Oysters, there's a certain number that they're also. They make such a thing out of Rolexes. I cannot believe it. I think they still just tell time. I am not sure. I mean, this cost like... Not quite as much as a Rolex. I mean, it is close. Really? It is close, but ... How much was that one? It was $25.

It looks it. That is a compliment. No, no, no. That is what I am going for. It looks like you got all your $25 worth right on that one watch. The battery starts working, but it is obviously more of a fashion statement. I have, on my watch, this was given to me as a gift, and there is a wonderful inscription in it. Would you like to hear it? Sure, is it? It's from the president of show business. Oh, okay. Dear Tom, this is to commemorate your 55 years in show business.

Everything you do is good. The people you know are good. You're a good family man. You're a brilliant writer. It seems you fly uncomically on the wings of Pegasus. I have to sort of turn it because there's more. It's hard to fit it all. Never in my life have I met a writer.

With your skills and natural ability, I would dare say anything goes on. So, that is beautiful. From the president of showbiz. I keep falling asleep before I get to the end of the inscription. How is he the president of showbiz, Mr. Showbiz, Mr. Biz? Well, he was indicted.

That sounds about right. You might have heard about that. Sticky fingers in the old cash register. Oh, okay. You know what I'm saying. These guys, you know what I mean? I do. I don't mean the mafia. I mean just guys who hold their hands like this. Yeah, they had a baseball manager career. A little skim, skim, skimmering a ding-ding, skimmering a ding-dong. That's next to the ayahuasca. Yeah, yeah. And the paddling hog.

Ring-a-ding-dong, pat-a-ling-hug, and Jones, good morning. Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? So, you did something cancelable? Is that what happened? No, no, no, nothing like that. It's fun to say your Catholic radio show got canceled. They wanted someone on who could be on every day, five days a week, which I would have done. I love doing it, but two hours a day, so they got... A really good lady. I can't think of her name right now. Wonderful friend.

Dolly Parton? Was it Dolly Parton? Dolly Parton. In advance, the original Ethel in I Love Lucy. Oh, okay. That sounds like a good fit. I actually met her once, and I worked with Lucy once. The Lucy? Yeah. The Lucy that everyone loved.

Or at least, that is amazing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was doing a TV show, and she was a guest on it. I wrote a sketch that I was in with her, and another great comedian named Louie Nye. Not that I am a great comedian, but one of my other idols for the Steve Allen shows. Yeah, I got to work with a lot of my heroes on shows like that. That is awesome. Guys whose comedy records I would listen to, memorize, and do in school.

Just a few years out of high school, I'm writing for Jonathan Winters and going to lunch with him and stuff. Oh, man. He was my all-time favorite, I would say. Bob Newhart? Oh, Newhart I worked for, too, a couple of times. Lovely, lovely man. May he rest in peace. Yeah, that was very recent. Yeah, he was like 95. Lovely wife who pre-non-existed.

I don't forget what you say. Pre-died before him. Pre-deceased? Yes, thanks. Well, how long are you going to wait before you're going to bail me out? I didn't really know where we were going. I thought she was non-existent while they were married. Is that what you were suggesting? No, she was completely existent. She was not a... Lovely, and a lovely woman. Okay. A big diamond boy. I remember seeing that diamond. Mary Tyler Moore I worked with, and the first day I met Mary Tyler Moore...

God, and it wasn't a guy my age who didn't, that wasn't her, your dream girl. Yeah, didn't have a crush on her. Dick Van Dyke show. Yeah. And first day I met her, we were doing this Montreal Comedy Festival, and.

I wrote a sketch that she was going to be in. A show called Love Letters was going around with just two actors in it, and they read each other's letters that they send back and forth. It is just a two-person play, but I wrote this sketch where they start getting other people's mail. It was Mary Tyler Moore and Kevin Nealon, and Belzer shows up. As they start getting the wrong mail, they start reading other people's mail. Anyway, so I met her, and she shook my hand, and she had the biggest single diamond.

Hmm. No kidding around, Diamond. I mean, I am telling you, this was, you know. Because she could afford it, or was she married to a very impressive? Oh, no, she was very, very wealthy. Oh. And so, I said, Mary, thrilled meeting you, but you know, if you would just give me that, Diamond, it would change my life, whereas with you, it is just going to be one thing among many things you have. Yeah. She liked that, and then we became pretty good friends.

Oh, and then she wrote an inscription on the ring before she gave it to you? Yes, and I'd like to read it to you right now. Do we have time? It's about 40 minutes. Yeah, we've got time. I don't know. How long have we been on already? We've been on three days.

It's like one of those things that rock stations used to do. The jockey, this jockey would stay up for 75 hours and just go crazy. It's a pretty funny idea. Yeah, dance marathons, there was a play I saw on Broadway. Yeah, yeah, they shoot horses.

There was this... Oh, they? Huh? Who? Sorry, go ahead. Before, you were talking about sacrificing swine, and now we're getting into, I don't know. Well, there was a butcher in my family. Okay, yeah. By the name of Joseph Mengele. Maybe, no, no.

It's a very storied career. He's a terrible guy. The more I hear about that, it's like wonderful Norm MacDonald's great line. This Hitler guy. The more I hear about him, the more I don't like him. Yeah, yeah. I thought he was just getting a bad rap for a while, but it turns out, no. Well, he got a black eye in the press. There's no question about that. Actually, not a good guy. It turns out. I did a sketch with another guy, just a dear friend of mine.

I sound like one of those old show business guys, but a really good one. Martin Maul. past oh yeah and i wrote a sketch that he for a show that he did and he was with jane curtain and she's sitting alone in a plane and the seat next to her is open and marty mull sits down with a suitcase and he opens up his little briefcase and he's got all these airplane liquor bottles in it and he's pouring himself all this liquor she says you don't have any xanax and she goes no no she goes he goes how do you do i'm skip hitler two t's you I can't remember anything else in this sketch, but I remember.

Two Ts. Quick to add that in. That was very important. You don't want to get... No, you don't hear about anybody named Hitler. Hi, Skip Hitler. Two Ts. How are you? Now, listen. They just got rid of that name altogether, I think.

He went with Skip. That was a step in the right direction. You don't meet a lot of Adolphs, that's true. They stopped using that name. It was once the most popular name. You could name a boy in the town of Leipzig in the German Alps. It was like John Smith before, and now it's gone. The real phrase is Liederhäusenschatz.

Your German is exceptional. Yeah. Schwarz und schwarz und schwarz und schwarz und schwarz. That is how German sounds to me. Everything is schwarz und schwarz und schwarz und schwarz und, you know? Well, everything sounds like a punishment, I feel like. It does.

I have friends in the Netherlands, and they speak English in the home. They learn Dutch. The kids learn Dutch at school. The mother speaks to them in French, and the father disciplines them in German. So, it seems like the right combination of things. My parents, once now and then, use a Yiddish word.

Then you know if things were, you know, I'm verdreth. How are you doing, Dad? I'm verdreth, meaning I'm just exhausted. Oh. Things like that. Yiddish is a fantastic word. The Irish, we have Gaelic. Every now and then, we get a decent Gaelic word, but it just gets anglicized. You don't even know that it's an Irish origin. It's a nicer sounding dialect than, you know. Yeah, but you retain the Yiddish, though. This is the word. We're not going to anglicize it. And you dress British.

That was always the thing in comedy writing. Oh, yeah? Think Yiddish, dress British. You ever hear that? You're doing an excellent job of it today. Well, that's been my whole thing. Oh, my God. I've always dressed British and thought Yiddish. Oh, interesting. Because I've hired a lot of comedy writers, and the one thing I always would think is, don't. Dress funny. Don't dress funny. Like a Daffy Duck t-shirt. You know? But that is me. That is what has kept me out of the big money.

Big money. It has kept me out of the big money, too. I was knee-deep in the Big Muddy. Which is important. I mean, when you're traveling here from Connecticut, and you're deep in the mud. Yeah, that's why I was a little late. Yeah, yeah. You're deep in the mud. Knee-deep in the Big Muddy.

Oh, Lord. Now, did you ever cook with Father Leo? No, but he cooked for me. Oh. We used to do a regular Christmas show with Lino Rulli. I'm a Catholic guy, and Leo would cook. We'd get together in Lino's apartment, and then we'd sing a song, and yeah, Father Lino's a good cook. He actually has a truck, a food truck now.

I heard about that, yeah. Helps the hungry. It's in Baltimore, right? Yeah. Or somewhere around there, right? Yeah, Baltimore, yeah. Yeah, I met him years ago. A friend of mine was helping produce the cooking show, I think. Oh, yes. I didn't tell you. I introduced him. Tim Watkins is his name. He's got, we should plug him, Meals Through Grace, through Leopardo. Meals Through Meals, Grace Through Meals, something like that.

One of our crack. Our crack producers will find it. Yeah, research it. Plating. I don't know what these guys are doing. So, I have more names. You're watching the Mets. I have more names. Okay. I got more. You know that old great line by Red Buttons used to say at every fryer's roast? What is that? And God, and who was it? Adam said to God.

God, I got more ribs. You got more broads? He never got a dinner. I got more ribs. You got more broads? He never got a dinner like tonight we have at the Friars Bowl. Yeah, that's true. One rib, I mean, would I give away, yeah. Got more broads? It was a time when you could do that horrible kind of thing. Well, there was only one girl, I guess. Yeah, well, that's why he wanted a thruple. Adam wanted a thruple. Yeah, well, that's going to be the title of this episode, just so you know.

Adam gets a thruple. We'll write that down. Tonight at 8. Tonight at 8. Tonight at 8. Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve. It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Remember when people were saying that? That's what people would say and think they were so brilliant. Yeah, like, wait a second. Like reverends would say that. Not Adam and Steve. Okay. I don't think they had comedy writers involved.

I thought of a... How long are we going to do? I don't want to bore you with... No, no. No, no. Being too interesting, is that what you're saying? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't want to drive the audience, ring them out, leave them weak with entertainment. Well, I just don't want them to be disappointed of every other episode we do, and then they're going to... Oh, so now I'm responsible for all those other shows. Yeah, so you have to come back every week and...

Schlepp. You notice I just used, it is Schlepp. Yeah. It's a Schlepp down here from Connecticut every week to do a show with. Well, you'd have to zoom me in. Yeah. I do Lino's show like once a. A couple of times a month. But we can't, this wouldn't happen over Zoom. We can't do these live shows, too. You don't get this kind of reputating. No, no, and I've never been this low in a building before. Yeah, exactly. This is where they bring the president, right?

If something, God forbid, happens, they bring him right down into this. This is the nuclear blast facility. Yeah. Dinosaurs, you know. There's fossils over there. Fossils, yeah. So, here are the other names I have. So, we already talked about Rob Long. I was going to tell you about something I was going to tell my priest.

They keep changing the priest, so I think, well, I might as well wait until there is a more permanent priest. I thought about this joke I know. I think it would be a great homily. It is really kind of one of my favorite jokes, but I want to tell it to your brother and see what he thinks. There you go. We can workshop it. Can you get him on the phone? I will pitch it to him right now. No, no, never mind.

He does not answer my calls. Interesting. Yeah. Sibling whatever, huh? No, he is just experienced. Sibling rivalry. He knows. Fireman. He's like, ugh. Oh, I know. Well, next time, you know, he invites you over, which won't probably be very soon.

Here's the joke. Guy's sitting at home on a Sunday morning, reading the paper, and he looks in the classifieds. He's got nothing to do. He's in his pajamas, and he sees Talking Dog for sale, and it's an address that's like only a few blocks from his house. Talking Dog for sale.

Phone number and address. And he goes, what the heck is this? He goes, you know what, this is going to be a good laugh. I'm going to go see where, I'm going to go there. You know, at least it'll be a story. I went, nothing happened, and whatever. So, he gets dressed, and he goes in his car, and he goes to the address where the guy's selling the talking, supposed talking dog in the classified. He goes, I can't believe I drove over here.

Oh, hell, I might as well just go up to the door now. I mean, I came here. I might as well play it out. He feels like an idiot. He looks around, and he knocks on the door. Long pause, and finally, this old guy opens the door and goes, yeah?

And the guy goes, I can't believe I'm asking this, but do you have a talking dog for sale? And the guy goes, yeah, he's out in the back. And the guy goes, what? He's out in the back, the dog. Okay.

The guy backs up and figures, hell, I might as well go all the way with this. He goes around to the gate, opens the gate, goes, he sees this old, fat dog just laying on his stomach, legs sprayed out flat like a magic carpet, just old, you know, and he goes up to the dog. He looks around. He can't believe it, but he says it. He says, can you talk? The dog looks up and goes, yeah, I can talk. The guy can't believe it.

How can you talk? Well, you know, I was trained by the CIA, and they would drop me behind enemy lines, and because I'm a dog, I could walk into the despot or the dictator's castle or, you know, war room and get the plans and walk them back across to friendly lines, out of the enemy lines. I'm just a dog. So, they told me so I could report on stuff, and the guy can't believe it. He's practiced hardest, and he runs out of the backyard.

He runs back to the front of the guy's house, knocks on the door again. The guy opens the door. He says, yeah, he really can talk. The guy goes, yeah, he can talk. He says, well, how much do you want for him? And the guy goes, I don't care. Give me 20 bucks.

And the guy goes, 20 bucks? 20 bucks for a talking dog? Why so cheap? And the guy goes, because he's a fucking liar. That's why. He never did any of that shit. He was not in the CIA? No. So, I thought that would be a great homily for a priest, because it's like, you don't know what you have. You don't know how good you have it. You know what I mean? That's what I get out of it, right? And the talking dog, the guy doesn't, he resents him because...

He makes up powerful stories, but that's not the secret sauce of the dog, you know. I don't think that would be a good... First of all, you've got to laugh. I have to work with you, brother. I can't believe that shit. You've got to take that part out. I have to teach him how to wait for laughs and things like that. Well, he's... And he probably can't afford me if he's just a priest, because I'm icing my friend. Well, no, he's fine with embezzling or whatever we need to do to, you know, from the...

I might have to shake out a little of the old dollar bills from the... The candle area? The collection plate? Yeah. The collection plate goes around. Yeah, every now and then, I help myself to that. I'm like, I'll help with the collection. Well, it's like I do that at the gym. You know, they have disposable razors, fresh, with caps on them. Sure. And once in a while, I'll take one home and go, I'm paying for the gym.

It still feels like stealing, though. Well, what was, I think, troublesome was when you brought the treadmill home. That, I don't think, necessarily was part of the... Yeah, that's how I hurt my back, actually. Yeah, well, exactly. I can't use the treadmill. It's more impressive. They were just impressed you could get it out. They're like, this guy... I mean, if you can get it out of here, you can keep it. Yeah, and then they caught me cooking in the sauna.

I was making some bacon eggs in there for some of the boys in there. You go to nice gyms, my friend. There's razors, there's steam, there's saunas. Yeah, they're closing at the end of the month. Are they? Yeah, some other better gym is buying them. Oh, good. Probably equinox. Everything is equinox these days.

So, the other day, I said we have Rob Long, Father Leo, Jonathan Morris. We already talked about that. Monsignor Sicano. Oh, I love Monsignor Sicano. I would bring him cupcakes. I love that guy. You didn't bring us cupcakes, and you've talked about getting slices of cake for Willie, the unfortunate intern. No, I... It's good. It seemed to be, you know, maybe... I didn't know if you had any allergies or had diabetes or anything. Well, I appreciate that. Waiters ask you now.

Waiters, servers ask. Yeah. And the first time I heard it, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I'll have the roasted chicken. Can I get fries instead of the mashed potatoes? Okay. And he goes, any allergies? No, I just ordered.

Everything I'm allergic to. Well, I'm pretty good. In the fall, I don't feel so good, you know? Lilac really gets me. Yeah, when the magnolia blooms, it kind of knocks me out a little bit, but thanks for asking.

No, I ordered knowledgeably. They do that at fancy restaurants to show you how fancy they are. And I go, no. He goes, how's your glucose level? I said, well, he thinks I'm a little kid, you know. And he's like, now that I've seen that, I think I'm going to recommend a different dish. I recommend another restaurant. I'm going to say, yeah, just go with the water. Sure, I wouldn't eat here if I were you. And the rolls you already stole that are in your bag.

The rolls that you put in your pants. I'll take those back now. So, I have a very slight crossover here, but enough to be able to reference it, Paul Schaefer. So, I used to host a jazz night in Midtown for... Three, four years, every Friday night, we'd have a jazz night, and sometimes people would just pop in. They'd hear the music, and we were right next to Book of Mormon, and across from Chicago, and so every now and then, a celebrity type would just pop in, and one day, I look over, and there's Paul Shaver.

Yeah, he's my very dearest friend in life. That's amazing. He played the wedding march at our wedding. I've known... I've known him. My chef, Chef Arachi, as I like to call him, for over, gosh, 45 years, maybe. Really? Yeah. That's a long friendship. Yeah, enough is enough, I think. But you met originally where? Prison. Yeah, okay, that sounds about right. No, we just met at a party, and we knew all these friends in common. It was a New Yorker, right? It was almost like a setup, like, you've got to meet this guy, and you've got to meet that guy.

Same with Belzer, too, and I met Belzer. Christopher Guest introduced me to Bells because he had been telling, you've got to meet Tom, and Tom, you've got to meet the Bells, and so it was like an arranged comedy marriage. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

But this would have predated when Letterman, for sure, right? Oh, yeah. He was a player on Saturday Night Live, I think. No, he was doing a couple of pilots out in L.A. For Don Kirshner, about a band that sells their soul to the devil, talk about the theme of our show, being a religious show, so on. Although, we've only said two religious things in the whole five hours. We haven't actually. No one would suspect this at all has to do with faith or culture.

No, no, no. We haven't said anything particularly cultural or religious. No, no. But we have helped people get a good night's rest. Well, yeah, and I think... No, I think we've been... Great, actually. Oh, wow. I think this is... So, let me ask you this. Why is there not a sitcom at a parish church? That seems like there's comedy. Wait, what? I wrote one. Couldn't get it made. Called Laughing in Church.

I feel like there's so much comedy in churches. Oh, yeah. It was about a... Well, I'm giving it away now, but... Who cares? We'll write this down. No, I didn't even sell it. It never got made. Usually, I'd sell them, and they wouldn't get made. This time, I didn't even sell it. It didn't get made. At least when it didn't get made, and you sell it, at least you got money. Whatever I have, I have. I don't have to get into the actual numbers of net worth.

That's not important. That's the first thing when I do it. Two million. But anyway. I don't know, I'm just kidding. Every time you start, you tell the stories, there's another house. Well, my house in Connecticut, my house in L.A., my thatch roof hut in Peru.

When I wear the trail diaper, my Tahiti place. Yeah, Tahitian Palace. I wear my mankini of justice. I wear the mankini of justice. Whose justice are you administering? Justice is blind. Not this time, dear. Not around here. She isn't. Was this in the church pilot? It was about a young married couple who leave the city, and they buy a church that's for sale, because you can buy churches and make them houses. So, they buy one, but it's haunted.

And meanwhile, it's haunted by this Father Gregory, who is just a drunk. He's like a saint, but real low down on the saint totem pole, you know, and he was a drunk, and you know, so he haunts the place, but also the people in this little town refuse to let it go as a church, so the AA meeting is still going on in these people's house. They wake up one morning, and they're having an AA meeting in their base. What are you doing?

Well, we always come here for, this is now a house, a private house. Sorry. Anyway, that's kind of, and then Father, I forget the story of it, but then, then the The man starts to see this, kind of an atheist, starts to see Father Gregory, this alcoholic ghost, who was the priest there 200 years ago. That is like a… I think in church, I always liked the title. Bizarro version of Beetlejuice is what it is. I guess.

They were trying to get him out. They did not like the newcomers, right? I do not remember. Yeah, the premise was that… Gina Davis and Alec Baldwin are this young married couple. They die in the first few minutes, and they're trapped in their own house, and then Catherine O'Hara, and the family moved in, and they don't want these yuppies, or whatever. No, they're kind of yuppies. I forget the plot of it. And so they're trying to scare them out. That's the whole thing, and that's why they call Beetlejuice, because they're like, we need him to get them.

Only Beetlejuice can remove, like, Ghostbusters type. So, and that, folks, is the plot of Beetlejuice. I hear his vision is so great, the guy who made the movie. Oh, Tim Burton, yeah. Richard Burton's son, interestingly. I like lying about show business facts.

Well, and Catherine O'Hara is my mother, in fact. Different spelling, Sean O'Hara, Catherine O'Hara. I love Catherine O'Hara. Good Catherine O'Hara story. Yeah, please. I've known her. She's so darn funny and so nice, but we did this variety show, the Steve Allen Show, and we were both just hired as writers, and I didn't know her. We just hired as writers, but then we started being so funny in front of Steve that he put us on the show, so we were writing and being, and I'd be writing sketches as Tom Leopold, Steve's writer, and I'd come in and out of the scenes, and then I was with Lucy and all these other things.

Steve Martin did the show. Anyway. It was one of those six shows that see if it gets picked up for the fall, you know. They don't do that anymore. It's like the tail end of variety, and Catherine O'Hara. So, he puts me and Catherine O'Hara in this sketch. Three Mile Island, about the songs of Three Mile Island, but anyway, it is like a review. There are four stools, two gentlemen in tuxedos, and two ladies in evening gowns, and they used to do these kind of reviews, where there would be musical reviews, where they would sing songs and do little comedy bits.

Catherine O'Hara, Donald O'Connor was the other guy, who was my favorite dancer of all of them. Donald O'Connor, I'm dancing with, and I'm in this dance, and Kay Ballard was in it, and then Catherine and I sing a song together.

There's a three-mile island where the wiki-wachi-wachi-wachi thing, something, I don't know what it was. But anyway, but I got to... Dance with the great Donald O'Connor. I mean, Fred Astaire, Donald O'Connor, Gene Kelly, that's it, you know? And so, one day, he says to me, This is a story that has no blow, and there's no laugh. I don't know why I tell this story, because it has a sad ending, but one day he says to me, Tommy, I have a jacket I wore in a movie with Marilyn Monroe.

It's a brown, golden velvet jacket and an MGM label sewn in with my name on it from this picture I did with Marilyn, and I'm too fat to wear it now. I'm going to bring it to you tomorrow. You know, it was when I was skinny, and you could... I'm going to bring it to you tomorrow. Great. Oh, boy, oh, boy. This is amazing. I couldn't hardly sleep, you know? I'm thinking, that's just the beginning that Donald's going to give me.

He's probably going to give me cufflinks from something. Sure. You know, I could clean this guy out, you know? I'll be up at his house all the time. Matcha shorts, you know, whatever. Whatever. And I just hardly sleep, and I get to the parking lot of the studio early to see his pull in with his turquoise Rolls Royce, and I pretend that I just pulled up, you know, so I can walk him and get the coat and everything, and he gets out and locks his car, and he doesn't have the coat, and I go, hey, Donald, how are you doing?

Hey, Tom, how are you doing? Never mention the coat again. Oh. Which is a better story. And then he murdered him? What happened? And I, then he disappeared. I had no idea what happened to him. Listen, but you've had a, you've had a turquoise Rolls Royce ever since? I have an alibi. I have an alibi. Oh, okay. I was out at Spawn Ranch with the Manson family at the time. Yeah, yeah, that's... You know, they take a black eye in the press, but...

Yeah, I mean... I guess they deserve it. Ever since the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood movie, like, people... Yeah, I love that movie. Overview of him. So, what do you think, if you were breaking into comedy today, you would have a podcast, you would do your own YouTube channel, you would try a conventional route of writing spec scripts? I mean, everything has changed so much.

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, any and all of them. You know, whatever you can do. The more you do, the more you have a chance of something working or getting out there, and make sure you are funny. That is my advice to the young comedy writers. Big problem in… Yeah, low overhead. Two things I say. Low overhead, cheap rent, which I was always lucky. I had a rent-controlled apartment. That is what kept me in show business. I would get my unemployment check from some job, some play I was in.

The thing I wrote, and I could live like a king. My unemployment, I had a cheap, trub-in-the-kitchen, toilet-in-the-hall, West Village apartment, the greatest apartment on the greatest street, you know, but it was my toilet. Nobody else could use the toilet. I hastened to add. Didn't. Yeah. You're not a sharer.

I'm some weirdo. Yeah. But I say that, I say low overhead, and are you funny? Yeah. Like, people say, sometimes, I want to be, if you got it, I mean, if you're funny, at least you got that going. Well, when did you know you were funny? When was it validated by a third party, or somebody in the business? When I came up to New York, I met Chris Gaston, Mike McKean, I told you, right? Yeah, wow. And I was smart, I'm 17, and I was smart enough to know how damn funny these two guys were.

Man alive, they were funny. And I was funny back, and I was making them laugh as hard as they were making me laugh, and that gave me a lot of confidence, because I was smart enough to know how funny these guys, and I found out, geez, where has that been building up in me? You know, I mean, I was always getting in trouble being the class clown and all that stuff, but I didn't know it kind of formulated into a bit of a gift, you know.

Yeah, but you already had enough chutzpah. I think I'm going to use more Yiddish. Don't get too Jew-y on me now, man. I only know like five Yiddish words. Somebody says anti-Semitic thing like that. But you had enough gumption, we'll use that word, to come up to New York at 17. Well, I've got more gumption. I've got more gumption back in my room, if you want to know. Oh, that's where you keep it. Yeah, oh yes, well, I wanted to leave high school a year early and come at 16, but I had to go through one more year of begging not to be thrown out, begging to be passed and graduate, but I was in some of the plays, and so that was the beginning of getting some attention.

I was in children's theater, and I had a ventriloquist act, and all this magician and all that stuff everybody does, you know, every funny person starts out doing. And you've said in interviews before that your parents loved show business. Oh, God, yeah. And that's interesting. I mean, obviously, it's very...

A gift to know that your parents were presumably open to the idea of you pursuing such a career. Well, it is and it isn't, because on one hand, it's kind of nice for them to be against it, so you can rebel, but if they're too into it, then they're too up into your business, like, well, kid, what does your agent say? If you're not working one week, it's like, I don't know, kid, if you should be doing this, but if I was working...

My dad would say, I want to come to one of the sessions. So, where did that come from for them? Was that just? Just loving movies and just loving all that great stuff. Yeah. Yeah, my dad was in World War II at 18. He was. Funny place.

Yeah. Funny environment. Yeah. A lot of show business. Not T-O-O either, my friend. Wait, World War I? World War Fun. World War Fun. That is what I call it. That was the good stuff. How long have we been on?

Geez. I got to shave again. That one really does. It's like a casino. There's no windows, man. Yeah. I'll sign anything you want. Just let me out of here. I was a spy for the... The Vichy in France. Anything.

All right, so they love showbiz. That was good for you to have that support. Yeah, but it was, you know, kind of worked in reverse in a way. It was kind of a pain. But then it was great because my dad lived long enough to see me kind of start doing some stuff, so that was great.

And he was very, very funny. My father was really, really funny. I mean, for real funny, and so I really, you know, got it from the old man, you know. He really had the funny bone, you know, and apparently I picked up on it, but he knew what was funny. Like, watch this show. Watch Jackie Gleason. Watch Bilko. Watch Art Carney, you know. All you have to do is watch Art Carney. You don't have to really watch anybody else. In life, you know, and I was very sickly, so I would be able to watch TV all day long, and watch all the, Lucy, and all these, going to school, you know, and I'd go to movies, and in those days, I sound like one of those old guys, which I am, you know, a movie would come, there was no cineplex, so a movie would come, and if it was a hit, it would play at your local theater for like 26 weeks or something, you know?

Yeah. So, I'd go anyway. I'd go, even though I'd seen it four times, just because I want, I've got to go to the movies. Sure. So, I'd see something like it hot, like five times, and it's sort of like, it goes into your bones. Yeah, like, oh, that's interesting. It's like learning a song. That's away from there then, or that guy said the joke, but he's waiting because maybe he thinks the audience will laugh. And I think the things that I didn't realize at the time, but also it's like.

Other guys my age got into Elvis. That is what set them on fire, but me, it was Art Carney and the Honeymooners, or Bilko. I could not believe things could be so funny. The next day at school, I would not be able to think of anything, but how could Art Carney as Norton on the Honeymooners, how could that be so funny? I mean, it was not even that I was laughing anymore. I was just like, I have entered a new universe that I did not know existed.

A craft, I mean, is really what it is. Yeah, just brilliance. Yeah. I still think there is a parish TV show waiting to be made. I think that is funny. So, I got it written. I probably have it somewhere. It was funny. I mean, my friend wrote a treatment for one after. So, I lived in a...

I don't like to brag, but I've lived in several rectories, and yeah, that's not something you hear every day. Yeah. It's really, the babes love hearing that. You live with priests? Yeah, yeah. It makes you a babe magnet when you say that to a loved one. It turns out I grew up with one since my brother became a priest. And so, another friend of mine lived at that rectory as well, and so he wrote this treatment of like, Like, all the characters that come in and out of the parish.

Because comedy, so much of my comedy is contrast, right? And the contrast of a church in New York City, he wrote it being in a theater district. A bachelor living in one is a great idea. Because it gives you that outsider perspective. His brother's a priest. That's pretty funny, too. Yeah, so it kind of lets... Oh, he just wrote it. Writes itself.

Well, we'll get it signed. Let it write itself. Oh, yeah, that's how it works. It actually writes itself. Oh, I didn't know there was a... People think it's just a metaphor. It's a magical wand that does that. Okay. All right, well, we have our assignment. We're going to write this show. We've got to bring Rob Long back on here. Anytime. We're going to have a conversation.

And then we need to get you a driver, or at least a valet service for the next time. Well, usually... I keep rooms here in the city as well, but I just happen to be in my country homes. Ah, yes, of course.

I pluralize everything when I sound rich. Yeah, well... I just was driving inns, because I keep rooms. When you pluralize things, they sound more valuable, don't they? In my cars. Try it. It's yours. Use it. That's free. You can take that one. It's yours. Free. Gratis, my friends. Gratis. Well, from... Well, this has been the longest interview for a guy nobody knows. Nobody knows who I am, and this is the longest anyone's ever been interviewed. Really? And I hardly heard of me.

Yeah, I... I've hardly even heard of me. Well, I... I'm flattered to death. Well, good. I'm glad. I think it was entertaining. I think, like I said, at the least, it will help put people to sleep at some point. No, no. I would listen. Would you? Oh, yeah. Not in a sort of egotistical way. You know, I'm in the business. You are in the business. Oh, it's funny. You are in the show business. So, we have to bring Rob along on the show.

We need to go to Peru to have some ayahuasca. I'm not going to Peru. Forget about it. I think you guys heard it before. I think he committed to that. I'd be hallucinating. Just being in Peru would be enough to make me hallucinate about getting killed by, I don't know what, anything. Anything. Everything will kill you down there. Oh, yeah. Iguana, bandolero.

There's a lot of that going on, yeah. Water. Water? The mints on your hotel bed could probably kill you. Yeah. You wouldn't even eat those. I wouldn't even get in touch with the... I wouldn't even touch the bed covers. Never touch the bed covers in a Colombian, Peruvian hotel, my friend. I was actually stung by a scorpion, in fact, on the way to Machu Picchu. Really? Yeah, so we were staying on our journey to Machu Picchu, and I had hung my sweatshirt up, and I guess a scorpion had gotten in there.

And so when I... I took the sweatshirt down and laid it on the bed. It just kind of jumped up and just stung me right on the arm there, and I very calmly took a picture of the scorpion, and I went to my tour guide, and I said, well, actually, I went to my best friend who was with me first, and I said, now, I don't want to worry you, but I'm, like, a 12% chance I'm dying right now. I just got stung by the scorpion.

And so, we just went over our tour guide and showed him a picture, and he was like, oh, that one's not poisonous at all. You're fine. But I was very proud of myself that I was like, you know what? This might be it.

If this is the way I go, this is the way I go. Pretty cool way to go. Because we were in the middle of nowhere. Did you hear about Sean? What? Scorpion got him. All the things I thought that would kill him, you know? I had like 20 things I thought he'd die from. Never a scorpion.

Because we were on the way to Machu Picchu, and on the way there, you're really in the middle of central Peru. And then we did the 20,000 steps up the mountain, and we survived. We were running out of steam at one point, and like manna from heaven.

Girls on a yoga retreat came along, and suddenly we found inspiration. Yeah, you did, didn't you? We found energy that we didn't know we had. Were you polite enough to let them walk ahead of you? Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that I could see where they were. So, in case they fell or something? Yeah.

What would be the other reason I would do that? Well, I don't know. I mean, were they wearing kind of a wonderful yoga pant? They might have been wearing form-fitting clothing. There might have been a little bit of that. What's wrong with that? The Lord made the ladies. I think he started out on us until he got it right. Yeah, but he's like... And he said, no, I don't need all this extraneous goings-on.

Don't kill the lily, just make a person, you know, with angels sitting next to him going, Lord, what are you doing? What's all that? Ah, what do you think? Ah, I don't know. That's good. A lady. You hit your stride there, Your Highness. Quit while you're ahead.

Well, I think that is a good place to stop. I thought there were like 20 good places to stop. So, from Will, the unfortunate intern. Well, I got to thank you personally for getting me out of a parking ticket and into a very expensive garage.