ICE Protestors Invade Christian Church, "Church-Hopping" Debate, and MLK Day

I'm live. Welcome back to the LOOPcast. It's Tom, Erika, and Josh. Everyone's back in home base. Josh, we're back in Michigan. Locked and loaded. So, LOOPcast brought to you by The Loop, every Catholic American's favorite morning newsletter. We have a great Monday show prepared for you. The biggest thing, and it's funny, we were talking about it before the show, you know, what are we going to cover? We're going to cover Greenland, we're going to cover the Middle East or whatever. And the one thing that didn't get widespread coverage that I almost couldn't believe, and this is one of those things I guess you're grateful for Exxon, was there was an organized protest at a Christian church in which a Christian church was stormed in St.

Paul. Don Lamont was there. I am not sure how that happened, but I did not see nationwide coverage, and as a Catholic show that enjoys, I personally enjoy a reverent liturgy that is not stormed by protesters. I cannot believe, I think the gift that maybe this was handed to the Law and Order folks, typically when you storm churches, you are not the good guys. So, we are going to be discussing all the elements of that. We have research prepared on that.

The second one that came up, and this is more of a fun topic, but the debate over church hopping came up, and it was actually funny, too. I got a homily this weekend in which the pastor, he's a new pastor, he's been there about six months, and he gave some of his observations on the parish, and one of the things that he really appreciated was how people...

People drive a long distance to go to this parish that I go to, and he really appreciated that, and then we got kind of a case for not church hopping, which led me down a rabbit hole, which I'm excited to get into on territory parishes and the Catholic Church in America, so it's going to be a fun topic, but we have good news. We have Twilight Zone, which is going to be, you know, classic LOOPcast. Always a good time.

And I got a new orange loop mug. Orange loop mug? Why would you do that? Well, there's news coming on that, so. News coming on that. All right, I guess we'll just leave it on that. I mean, orange. Okay, we have orange news coming.

Welcome to everyone joining here live. I appreciate someone gave a phonetic pronunciation of Baraboo, Wisconsin. Shout out Baraboo, Wisconsin. Baraboo. I mean, up top. I love the name. The bears are blessed by the Pope. That's the only possible explanation. Wait, why did we bring up Baraboo, Wisconsin? Someone from the chat is from Baraboo, Wisconsin. Okay, not even a joke.

I remember Baraboo, because this is where my guardian angel came in handy. I was pulling off the exit, and I was at Baraboo, and I didn't, you know, I thought I looked left and right, and I didn't look, and I pulled away, and somebody should have absolutely clipped me, and I don't know how I didn't, and I think my lucky star, it was in Baraboo, so I...

Josh, do you... It could have ended me right there, only five years ago. I don't know how you keep doing it, but you have an anecdote about everything. I don't think I've ever brought something up into which... Every small town in the Midwest. I was not met with an anecdote.

It's amazing. Truly blessed. Truly blessed. Thank you for coming in, crashing last show. It wouldn't have been the same without you. Yeah, we do appreciate that, you know, the crash-ins. You know, it's fun. Very fun. It's a fun element of this show. I'd say unique to us. I might just leave right now. That would be the real question. Yeah, like, will Josh show up? I don't think many podcasts have that element. It ranges like, oh, maybe you'll show up, maybe you won't.

I don't know. Okay, so let's get into the story in St. Paul. Really crazy. You've got lots of clips today, but Erika, what are we looking at here? Yeah, we're going to rely on the video footage from this mostly, but just to give some context. So, this was yesterday in St. Paul at the Southern Baptist-affiliated church called Cities Church. Around 30 demonstrators led by a woman named Nikima Levy Armstrong from the racial... Justice Network. They entered the church during the Sunday service, and in the footage, what you'll see is the church is packed full.

I mean, there's families, there's kids, there's elderly, and they crash into this church and start yelling, demanding justice for Renee Good. The organization called it, we'll get into this in a minute, but they call it Operation Pull-Up, and they cited their right to free speech to protest inside the church, and one of the accusations is that one of the pastors of this church is perhaps also an ICE agent at one of the locations in Minneapolis, so they accuse him of that.

You can see the pastor standing up. He's asking them to leave. He's saying, this is a house of God. We are worshiping Christ. Please leave. And the protesters shout him down. Families, you'll see them. Actually, we should just play some of the audio on this. If you could pop it up to where the pastor was speaking. Okay.

Why are you not at Wibble every day fighting for the humanity, standing for our people? Where are you? You drink your coffee, you got your jewelry, you have your nice clothes, but what do you do? What do you do to stand up for your Somali and Latino communities? I'm not going to comment. You have no comment. Exactly. I see a child crying. Renee Goods! Yeah. Okay, so just so you know.

I'm not at the turn-the-cheeks phase of this stuff. Someone comes into my church, just warning you, come up with Northern Michigan, you try to pull that in my town, I'm going to whoop your ass, and that is a promise. Promise. I will whoop your ass, and I will throw you out onto the sidewalk, and then we'll give you another ass whooping.

This was insane, and yeah, you can see most of the church is empty. We're like halfway through the protest here in this part of the footage, and the church is emptied out, like the families have gone. I mean, also, this is a grown man. This is a grown man getting in the face of children.

Right. Back to Josh's point. Like, it'd be one thing, it'd be one thing. I don't, man, I don't want to say anything I would regret, but for him to be trespassing and then getting in the women and children's face, I almost am like, you can't say, you know, what you would actually do until you're in this situation. But I don't understand.

Why nothing was done to these people, and I'm sure they're scared of lawsuits or whatever else, but the men in this church to let this grown man with a beard berate your women and children is just beyond me. He did that because he didn't expect anyone to do anything in return, and they did not. They didn't, yeah. He does that in my church, and he'll quickly realize, you don't do that in my church. Yeah, they're being way too kind to this guy, man.

Yeah, there's footage of him later on out in the parking lot as women are trying to buckle their babies into car seats, and he's yelling at them as they're trying to get away with their kids. It was just beyond. But we did get, thank you to journalist, independent journalist, Don Lemon. We have a lot of contacts. He just happened to be there. He just happened to be there. In fact, we have footage of him before the protest occurred. He just happened upon what he called a diverse group of And, yeah, there they are trying to get into the minivan.

Yeah, berating a van of kids. Yeah. Telling them they're bad Christians because they're not protesting biases. So, we got to go to Don here? We got to go to Don. I mean, I just feel like we need an independent mind telling us what to think about what happened here. The Nick Shirley of the left?

This is before what you just saw in the church. Go ahead. A little bit ago, and did some... Reconnaissance on the ground, speaking to an organization there that is gearing up for resistance and protest. I have been pleasantly surprised to see the community coming together. diverse community. If you see this, when we first pulled up, we're like, wait a minute, which operation are we at? And as it turns out, because we were like, well, this is kind of MAGA coded, right?

So the American flag or whatever, but these are resistance protesters that are planning an operation that we're going to follow them. Should we pause real quick? He said that this church is MAGA coded because they have an American flag outside. No, no. He's saying his protesters had American flag events. I was wrong about that. Yeah. This is actually the protesters have. The American flag. So, he's like, MAGA-coded. So, we happen to stop, and they happen to be having this resistance. I mean, what kind of resistance is it to go in and berate small eight-year-old boys in their church?

Bizarre, man. All right. Should I continue on this, Erika? No, you can skip to that. Now, he interviews the head of the protest organization, and she really says what they're doing. This is Operation Pull Up, more of a clandestine operation. We show up somewhere that is a key local. They don't expect us to come there, and then we disrupt business as usual. So, that's what we're about to go do right now.

Demanding justice for Renee Good and letting them know that this will not stand. Letting the kids know that this will not stand. So, some protest. Don then went to the pastor of the church and tried to interview him.

Pastor of the church? Our church had gathered for worship, which we do every Sunday, and we were interrupted by this group of protesters. We asked them to leave, and they obviously have not left. What do you think of this? I mean, this is unacceptable. It is shameful. It is shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.

But there were folks who were saved. I have to take care of my flock, my family. Listen, there is a constitution in the First Amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest. We are here to worship Jesus, because that is the hope of these cities. That is the hope of the world, is Jesus Christ. I want to be very respectful. Please do not push me, though. We are here to worship Jesus. That is why we are here.

That is why we are here. That is what we are about. Don't you think Jesus would be understanding and love these folks? We are about spreading the love of Jesus. Did you try to talk to them? No one is willing to talk. Okay. I have to take care of my church and my family, so I ask that you actually would also leave this room.

Yeah. Yeah, and just to be clear here, Don Lamont is telling the pastor that wouldn't Jesus love these protesters? Wouldn't he just try to talk to them? Well, they're not protesters. It's a mob that is interrupting, and it's like he talks about free speech and peaceful assembly. The church has a right to assemble. That's the one whose rights are being violated. This is such baloney, like this Orwellian talk that Don Lamont, I mean, I would have popped that guy right in the face.

I'm sorry. I don't care. When I go, like, oh my gosh, you might get arrested for defending my family and my prisoners. Okay, I'm almost going to stop you. I'm almost going to stop you here because I think, unfortunately.

This is probably going to inspire copycats. I wouldn't be surprised if you see something like this spread everywhere. So, I almost want part of the conversation to be, if something like this does happen, you know, what? Well, first off, I mean, the Trump administration, someone needs to drop the hammer on these people, right? Yeah. Don Lemon needs to be in handcuffs. That's what needs to happen. Yeah. Is that even, is that a possibility under law right now? Like, the people that were involved in this could go to jail.

Federal law, he absolutely did, and there's absolute justification, and if he is arrested, along with the lady who's in charge of that thing is arrested, and other people, if they all arrest him. Then maybe we won't get copycats. That's how you stop copycats. That's how you stop the nuisance from spreading. It's like the broken glass thing. It's like, we're going to prosecute over really small things so that bigger things don't happen. We live in total anarchy right now. This thing is actually a very big thing.

That's the point. This is a very big thing, and just to give it some context, I looked it up. They're in violation of both state and federal law, and so in Minnesota, they have a statute called interfering with religious observance. It's only the level of a misdemeanor.

But it says that intentionally using threats or violence to prevent someone from performing a lawful religious act, like your Sunday service, is a misdemeanor, and then physical obstruction is a gross misdemeanor, and that's intentionally or physically blocking access to or exit from a religious establishment. You can see how the loophole would be like, well, they didn't block them for getting into the church or getting out of the church, but talk about intimidation.

I think a case can be made. More importantly, however, they are in gross violation of the FACE Act. And those of you who remember the FACE Act from the Biden administration, the Biden administration used the FACE Act to go after pro-life protesters who were actually protesting public policy at places of the Planned Parenthoods outside of abortion mills, and the Biden administration was more than happy to arrest them and charge them with the FACE Act. This act, however, also, and Josh can give us the history, prohibits the use of threat or physical or force.

Physical obstruction that interferes with a person exercising the First Amendment right of religious freedom at places of religious worship. This is kind of a clear-cut case of that. Nonviolent obstruction. For the FACE Act, the first offense carries a prison sentence of six months and a $10,000 fine. Subsequent offenses, 18 months imprisonment, $25,000 fine.

And already, Harmeet Dhillon has already come out and said they are looking into the FACE Act for this. The DOJ has launched an investigation into this for FACE Act. I don't want any more looking into it. I want Don Lemon in handcuffs.

No more looking into it. And the thing is, just imagine, I hate to have to do this, okay, but we have to. Imagine if Tom and I walked into a, grabbed up 25 other people with us, walked into a mosque and shut down their service by shouting and screaming. It would be international news, and I would be let out in handcuffs. You know, so like, it drives me crazy that everyone on the left is so full of crap.

Like, they don't care. Oh, how dare you? Like, I mean, you look cross-eyed at somebody with a stink eye who's Muslim, like, you're a racist. Oh, okay, okay. But you can run into a Christian church and shout it down, and everything's totally hunky-dory. I mean, they're so, again, if they didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all. Guys are just so, I'm so sick of it. Well, you know, they didn't do this at a school. They didn't do this.

I mean, it's... I mean, this is so beyond irrational. It's the same city where a crazy trans person walked into a Catholic school and shot up a bunch of kids. So, you can understand why Christians in Minneapolis might be a little nervous about what happens. Maybe we need to get more security.

Now, this church wasn't Catholic in particular, like the school was. Right, but that's what's unfortunate about this. That's what's unfortunate about this, is because unless... If Trump drops a hammer on this, which I really hope he doesn't, I mean, there should be people in jail over this, no question. If that is not the case, copycats are going to arise, and then churches are going to have to bulk up security. If you bulk up security, you have to pay for that security.

It becomes more expensive. People need to worship in fear. In America, in a first world constitutional republic, you need to worship in fear. Over people barging in. I mean, like, I'm thinking about, I'm in the back of Mass, bouncing my toddler right next to a door. I mean, there's someone, like, if this is the new precedent, you can just barge in with cameras, berate women and children. You push people into a situation where you have to provide vigilante justice if you are not providing justice in which you have the proper authority vested in you.

And it almost feels like this is just like a temptation or provocation to do so, because you want people to react that way. That's why you're in there causing mess. Thank you. The crazy thing about this is people just left the church. No, they don't expect people to fight back. Well, people just left the church. That entire congregation just ended, whatever their service was, and they left, and then they're chanting. You've got a few barbecue dads that throw them up over and throw them out the door, and things start changing.

I know, Josh, but I'm telling you, unless the hammer's dropped, you're going to be putting people in that position, and you're going to be seeing news reports of actual fights and violence. You're saying, in the absence of proper authority, that might have to happen. And that is an unfortunate reality of it, because I know for a fact it would happen.

I don't even like to do the tough talk on it, because I know the reality on the ground, and it would be handled. I know it would be handled in my church. Yeah, my question was, too, like watching the footage, that they were in that building for like 8 to 12 minutes yelling like that. Where was the 911 call, and where were the police? Isn't the response time supposed to be under 10 minutes for a 911?

Like, they should have gotten people in there. And the thing, I feel like we have had this conversation for the last, all the time we've had the LOOPcast, because we were talking about church violence, summer of 2020. Then we had the rise after the Dobbs decision was leaked. That whole summer on this show, we were talking about what does church security look like? Like, what should Catholics be doing? What should Knights of Columbus be doing to prepare for this? And then it kind of dies off after a while.

Trump wins. You're like, maybe we don't have to think about this anymore, but we absolutely have to think about this, because you know what we saw during that summer after the Dobbs leak were copycat instances, both at pregnancy resource centers with the Jane's Revenge people and at Catholic churches. You would see, well, the crucifix got smashed here, like three churches down, there was another rash of smashing statues, so copycats do happen, to your point, Tom, and it has to be thought about.

Maybe the Knights of Columbus should change their focus a little bit and be protectors of the church. I mean, it literally might have to happen. Like actual swords. We have Trump administration, Caroline Leavitt. President Trump will not tolerate the intimidation and harassment of Christians in their sacred place of worship.

The Department of Justice has launched a full investigation into the despicable incident that took place earlier today at a church in Minnesota. So, that was the same day. I'm curious to see what kind of response we're going to get here. All of those people, I believe the person in charge was a former law professor, I saw, former law professor and attorney who did this.

You mean the so-called mob protesting? Right, they're accusing the pastor, David Eastwood, of ice ties, and I'm not sure the extent of the ice ties, but this just unfortunately seemed like an inevitable escalation from... What we've seen already in Minnesota is, like, if you have anything to do with ICE, like, remember that video we saw of, like, they're stopping SUVs that look like they're ICE vehicles and demanding someone get out and identifying themselves as having no ties to ICE.

We have this segment of the left. You know, the so-called Antifa, anti-fascists, who are getting kind of fashy, invading houses of worship, stopping people from driving and sitting and checking their papers. They need to be brought to a heel. They do. Donald Trump needs to, you know, like, what you did four years back in 2020. I ain't going to cut it. Don't let cities like Minneapolis and St. Paul burn. Yeah, it almost reminds me. Bring these thugs to a heel. Someone commented, and it was funny because the conversation was about how people are getting squishy on ICE enforcement in Minnesota, like Joe Rogan's like, oh, they're the Gestapo or whatever.

And someone commented, and I thought more about it, is like seeing the lawlessness actually makes people want to... Clamp down harder on illegal immigration. Like, I want you to actually do more enforcement. I want you to send people, because the response to it is so insane, it makes people want to do more. This is my send in the Marines moment, you know what I mean? Not that we shouldn't have before, because this is obviously like anarchy, but if you feel like freedom to go into spaces of worship and kick people out, harass women and children, and disrupt the sincere religious ceremony, you have no place in civilized society, period.

I don't, you should be in jail. You should be in jail, and we should have Marines on the ground if this is the status. This is why I say Trump is the moderate. Yeah, right. You guys don't understand.

Like, you keep this stuff up where you're impeding law enforcement, and you feel like you can, you know, have some sort of anarchic control of these cities and be completely lawless, busting into churches, stopping people, honking horns. Tom, I just sent you this. No, this is a great clip. I saw this one, too. Ice harder, basically, is all these clips are.

We're here to arrest a child sex offender, and you guys are out here honking. No, we're pressed. That vehicle right there is honking and impeding our investigations while we're trying to arrest a child sex offender. That's who you guys are protecting.

And by the way, that ICE officer was not white as Wonder Bread like I am. He was a Latino, it looks like. I mean, like, this is so crazy. It's like, and this is like that one time where it becomes an internet meme every once in a while. Like, you just hope that eventually they turn around and look at each other like, wait, are we the baddies? Yes, you are. You are the baddies. You are protecting child sex predators. You are bursting into churches and screaming at You know, children and families, as they're worshiping Jesus, you are the bad guys.

I have another one. This one's from Portland, but it's getting to this, like, I'll show it. It's a mom tried to box in an ice car, which she thought was an ice car, and there was someone behind that arrested her. And you could see her flip as soon as she realized she was going to be in trouble. So, I'll just show it. Turn on the lights. Turn on the lights. Turn on the lights.

Turn on the lights, turn on the lights. Hey, good boy. Turn on the lights. You're on TV with the Federal Investigation, and you have your own camera. And you actually have me before you, because it's a vehicle. Your case will be referred over to Homeland Security Investigations for prosecution, and you will be arrested. This is your last and final warning. Hold on a second, guys. Give me your license, please. I will once again tell you, you have cases in danger. She said, I have kids.

I'm just a mom. I don't know the spirit that is whipping people up. That doesn't mean I can go break federal law. Right, but what is... Get out of jail, freak. I'm really having a hard time. It goes back to the Rene Good situation.

What is animating people to do things that are so irrational? You're a mom. You have children. Right, you're putting yourself in a position where you could be shot. Rightfully so, because you are putting... Federal agents in danger, and then the rhetoric that you just, you hear from Tim Walz, and you hear from Jacob Fry, I have someone gave the proper pronunciation, I'm actually not sure, but why would you be whipping people up into this position where they're going to put themselves in danger, that they have no business being, and that they're not prepared for, and then potentially could lose their life, and then as soon as they get in real trouble, like, oh my gosh, I'm just a mom, it's like it hits for them.

But is this a social media thing? Is this a misplaced empathy thing? I don't get it. Why would you invade a church? What could possibly inspire you to do that? Yeah, traffic. I think that this reminds me of the even more tragic instance of Renee Good. If you watch the video and you hear the voice of her partner, so-called partner, there afterwards, and she's screaming, they shot her, they shot her, and then she screams. Why did you use real bullets? She says that like three times in a row, and you realize that, yes, misplaced empathy, but also this, when you have a hyper online frenzy that's cooked up, and then you translate it into real life, the people who were in that hyper online frenzy, they thought it was just a video game.

They thought it was just like, you know, I'm online with Minecraft building my little world, my little utopia. And I'm so brave and stunning. They don't realize this is in the real world any more than they realize that letting having open borders for all those years with Biden actually resulted in import in allowing these child sex offenders to come in and harm actual kids. That's why the ICE agent driving by saying we're trying to arrest child sex offenders. This is insane.

And you that doesn't translate for these protesters because to them, it's this online game of the good guys. The bad guys, and we are absolutely the good guys, and why did you use real bullets? Like, it's time to wake up, people. This is a real-world problem. Yeah, and this is a direct result of the far left ratcheting up political rhetoric and violence over the last several decades, and the conservatives have... You're in and you're out, warned about this harbinger of violence and rhetoric and saying, this is bad news.

Do not do this. You are going to get yourself harmed. Do not impede law enforcement. I get pulled over, too, just like every human has. I think this guy's an idiot, but be respectful. Always be respectful. Why would you ever?

This, I just, I can't get over this. You're right. It's absolutely a mirage. This is not Facebook. This is not Twitter. This is not, you know, you're not listening to some podcast for Jennifer Walsh or whatever, psychopath. No, this is real life, and you're putting yourself in danger. You have your big car, and you're just going to stop traffic.

Wake up. And I think, too, we need to get back to communicating what is the dignity of our right to protest? What is that for? Because this whole throwing around, oh my gosh, we're exercising our First Amendment rights. No, you're not. The right to free speech, which includes that right to protest, so on, it's to challenge tyrannical government and policy. It should be directed at politicians. It should be directed at the government, not at our government. Fellow citizens who are going about their daily business, we have more footage from Minneapolis this weekend of stopping white men on the street because they look like they might be pro-ice, and demanding that they say F-ice before you let them go, and following them into coffee shops and restaurants in downtown Minneapolis, saying, you have to say F-ice, or forcing men to take off sweatshirts that say freedom on them, and saying, we won't hurt you if you take off.

Is that what you have up here? Pardon the French, but that's what it is. Take it off, man. Struggle session. Get your ass up out of here. This is mob rule. That is mob rule. All the people with cameras are on, too.

It's crazy that this is like our country. What you said, Erika, or was it Tom? I forget. Like, it would almost be fun if we did, you know, had the Trump administration do PSA commercials, you know, like, hey, by the way, is it free speech to go into a church and scream at them and kick them out? Sorry, that is not free speech. That is the attack on free speech. And then just like, well, wait a minute now, what about peaceful stuff?

And then just bring, dude, the ramen guy. Remember the ramen guy? Correcting Chris Cuomo. Free speech. Like, what part of the Constitution says you can't do? It's like, uh, peacefully protest. Yeah, right. Peaceful. Yeah, the mostly peaceful protest.

I mean, really, a lot of the, um, Ross, uh, Ross Douthat, interesting times, did an interesting one. He talked to a, uh, Oh, yeah. Like an ice trainer. Like, they train people to, um, protest. Yeah, he trains people, like, ice watch, right? And, of course, you know, he...

Ross was great at dodging questions, and Ross kind of did the rope-a-dope, and then asked the killer question at the end. He's like, so, okay, so is there any limiting principle on immigration enforcement? Like, it just can't be enforced at all? And, of course, the guy had no answer for it, but I really like the goal. This is an anti-ICE person. This was a guy who trained people to protest ICE. Okay, got it. I wasn't tracking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, he's a non-profit.

He's an immigrant himself. He actually didn't want to immigrate to America. America, of course, gave him a great life, and now he's spending all of his time. He's teaching people how to protest, quote unquote, ICE. And he never says any, like, hard, yeah, we tell them to actually, you know, box people in or whatever. Like, he has to give the safe legal stuff. But these people, they're all involved in the same project here, right? They're like, oh, we're constitutional observers, whatever.

Like, many of them are extracting ICE. And I just can't believe, like, the gall of this guy to just. Come into the country, be accepted here, train people to stop proper immigration enforcement, and have no limiting principle on immigration, and then all of his arguments are like, oh, it's for economic reasons. We shouldn't be sending anyone away. And then he's like, oh, for moral reasons, we shouldn't be sending anyone away. You can't use guns. I'm like, well, respectfully, who are you?

Who are you to dictate what the laws of this nation are? It's just so outrageous to me. And then the second being, I can't even think of my points here because I'm just so angry at this point. If we're a serious country, we enforce our laws. These people have more in common with the South seceding from the Union than they do with peaceful protests for civil rights, and I don't know at what point the line got blurred there, but in no way, shape, or form should you be boxing in ICE agents, should you be shooting fireworks at them, you should be mob ruling.

Beating people up in the street, invading churches. This is like secession activity. I hate to even bring up the whole Civil War thing, but we have a small group of online LARPers that are acting like they're carrying a big stick, and as soon as they get faced with actual danger, they crumble because they've just been in a fantasy world that they're somehow this big, we are the good guys, we're fighting the Nazis or whatever, and in reality, you're kind of the South in the Civil War, and this is not how you conduct yourself in civilized society.

And we need the rightful authority placed with the federal government and in state governments that they've abdicated in many ways to actually enforce the law for the good of the public. These people need to pay for the consequences. They need to go to jail, they need to spend hard time, and the standard needs to be set. And if it's not set now, it's going to get worse. And what I will say is, as you said, Trump is kind of the moderate here.

He's done a good job so far. He hasn't backed down, he hasn't squished, and I actually want him to go like 10 times harder because there's nothing that anyone can do at this point. There's nothing. They're completely within their rights to act how they're acting. You might argue about tactics. That's fine. It's in the law for them to do this, and they're doing it for the good of the citizens of the country. I'm so beyond done with this.

You know, and again, what you said, that anti-ICE protester that Ross interviewed, the person that kind of personifies to me so much, truly. As a villain is Ilhan Omar, born in a horrible country at a time of a civil war. Our country welcomes her in with open arms, and she takes every last minute to take a crap on everything about our country and tells us how much she hates us and our country. It's almost unbelievable, and then there was a clip that was, I'm not going to play the clip, but it was on Jen Psaki's show where she said, the United States.

And she uses the Lord's name in vain. Yeah. United States, blank, blank. It's just outrageous, and she's become filthy rich because, of course, she's getting all these kickbacks from this stuff. And she is so vile in my mind. It just makes me want to vomit that the city I was born in would elect her to Congress.

You know, so ungrateful and takes every opportunity to spit in our face. Like, if you really think this country sucks so much. I know, Tom, when you're comparing them to the Confederates, I think you're letting them off the hook a little too much. I mean, yeah, they were violent Confederates, for sure. But I mean, I'm going back to the brown shirts. I'm thinking early 1930s. This kind of activity of smashing, pulling people over in the street, forcing them to strip their clothing.

To me, that's beyond. It's absolutely, yeah, you're the baddies, as Josh would say. Well, and it's like, what is so bad about Donald Trump? What is so bad about Donald Trump? He's deporting illegals. Tom, I have to tell you this. At the early part of this century, the first decade, The political parties were absolutely backwards on this. George W. Bush and the Republican Chamber of Commerce types were all in favor of massive illegal immigration, because they wanted to depress wages. And Bernie Sanders is not just the only one on the Democratic side.

Every Democrat, Barack Obama, was blasting George W. Bush for letting in so many illegal immigrants. Barack Obama. Yeah. And it's because it was lowering the wages of hardworking Americans. Because it is. But then they realized, the Democratic Party realized, if we just throw them a bunch of cash from the taxpayers, then we've got a permanent political class, and we never have to worry about trying to actually win over the hearts and minds of people born in this own country.

The scary situation. Yeah, they did a, I think CNN did a ride-along with ICE during the Obama administration, and they gave them the hero treatment. The brave guys doing, yeah. The brave men and women of ICE. We have a situation now where the president of France, the prime minister of Britain, and another fellow, I think it was the German chancellor, signed a document. Saying that Greenland is for Greenlanders.

And I can't help but laugh at this, because if you said that Britain was for Britons. No, they actually, no, no, no, they don't. They can't say that. Right, you can't say that. You literally actually can't say that. You go to jail. Yeah. What makes Britain, Britain is their diversity. That's a direct quote from Keir Starmer. Why can't 60,000 Americans just move on to that ice rock and say, now we're part of, now we're not Greenland anymore, we're red, white, and blue land, right?

Because we're just as much Greenlanders as anyone else there, right? Or maybe culture matters. Well, you realize it's all a scam, and they're just using that as a slogan for when they want to, for their political advantage. The left doesn't care if they contradict each other. What they do is any argument is a tool if it helps them. It's Saul Alinsky, Marcus Playbook. I mean, yeah, totally.

Yeah, once you see it for that, then you understand, yeah. Then you understand what's going on. Okay, I need some good news. Yeah, I need some good news. Oh, I love this. This is a marriage story, and not the movie, because that's a bad movie. That was actually the most depressing. Is that the one with the wheelchair?

No, no, that's the, like, um... Kill yourself, euthanasia one. Yeah, that one was a bummer, and then the marriage story was with Scarlett Johansson and the guy with the nose. Big time bummer. This is so much better. This is a good marriage story. So, the Archdiocese of Boston, which could always use some good news, they're hosting their third Valentine's Day. This is a great idea. So, if any pastors are listening, or like if you're the head of family life at your archdiocese or something, they're hosting their third annual Valentine's Day convalidation ceremony at the cathedral.

For couples who were married only civilly, Allowing them to enter the sacrament of matrimony in the Catholic Church. We profiled this in the loop this morning, so if you don't, if you're not signed up for the loop, you're missing out on cool stories like this. So, about two dozen, so like 24 couples are expected this year, and it's been a blessing for the Archdiocese. And I was like, well, I mean, is this really, well, that's great, but you get, how big a problem is this?

So, I looked it up. Pew Research did a study of attitudes toward family life and marriage in the Catholic Church. 26% of Catholics who are currently married were not married in the Church and had no Church blessing. That's a quarter of us. Like, that's a lot. This should be something in every diocese. But the problem is, and when our reporters here talked to Liz Kertrupe, who is the Director of Family Life in Boston, she said, people just aren't aware that this is even a thing.

So, most of these couples don't even realize they're not in a sacramental marriage until they go and someone asks them to be a godparent, and then they have to submit their marriage to the church, and the church says, ah, you're living together, you need to get married, and they're like, we've been married for 20, and they just never realized it. So, a huge part of solving this problem and getting this quarter of Catholic married couples completely sacramentalized is just raising awareness and informing people.

So, don't be scared, priests. Don't be scared to preach about this. Don't be scared to put in your bulletin, considering having your marriage validated, because let's get the sacrament to more married couples. So, go Boston. That is such good news, because I hate It's been Valentine's Day in the United States. Yes, I know you do. It's a crappy Hallmark card. I know you, Josh. We all got to get roses or chocolates for our wives, and wives look at us like we're a-holes.

We don't. Lori, I'm sorry. Look at this thing. I hate it. I hate it. No, my anniversary is when I take care of my wonderful, beautiful wife of 20 plus years, who's fantastic. No, but this is a great thing. This is truly, I will actually love this. And that's how February 14th, Valentine's Day, ought to be celebrated, getting people in the good sacraments of the church and marriage, how it ought to be. That is fantastic. Amen. I am here for it.

That's good news. That's my good news. Josh, you have some good news. I do have some good news. Okay, so the young kids are all right. Young men. How young are we talking? You're going to have to condition this one. Young men in their 20s. Okay, so the support for the gay stuff, the trans stuff, is still way too high for every generation, including Gen X, where I am, and older. But the good news is that young men in their 20s are moving away from the LGB, rainbow, jihad, propaganda stuff.

Even more men, even, you know, these young men are more sound on this stuff than men older than them in their Gen X or Millennials, certainly Millennials. This is such great news, and I love it, but I just want to let you know that, you know. The Rainbow Coalition types, the left-wing, the jihads, the LGBT guys, they don't like it so much. So, there's an outfit called Pink News, you can guess as to where they stand on the issue. Do you frequent Pink News?

Their headline for this was, Men Under 24 Returning to Homophobic Views of Past Generations, Study Suggests. Oh my gosh. Uh-oh. Okay. I mean, first of all, I always love the word homophobic. I am not afraid of gays. I just wish they would not do this disgusting stuff, and I want them to repent and believe in the gospel. I am not scared of them. Phobia. It is not a phobia. You guys are such idiots.

But young men are trending towards social conservatism and the views on marriage and human sexuality. Are we out of the woods? No, we've got a long way to go, but this is some good news, and anything that makes pink canoes upset is probably good for the social order. It's probably good for society.

So, young men tend to hold more traditionally conservative views, ugh, imagine that, on social issues than women. And I've said this before, I'll say it again, this younger generation... Oh, Ryan Bird, shout out. Yeah, he's awesome. Heck yeah, he's all over these. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I really, truly believe, the Gen Z guys, and the alphas that are coming after them, Gen Alpha, are like the first generations where the men are the ones that are holding the line and improving things. Usually, for the last few generations...

It was the women, you know, moms, grandmas that were holding true, and the men were like, yeah, okay, fine, or whatever. But men leading the way, that is a game changer, and we know so much from studies on this that You know, if you're raised in a family, and mom goes to church, but dad doesn't, you lose a lot of kids. They just don't. When they become adults, they just don't take it seriously because dad didn't. Whether that's fair or not, we look at God the Father, you know, and we see him through that way we see our own dads.

Our own father. And so, we need more masculine leadership in the church, and boy, I tell you, these young guys, I'm very proud. Can I tell you why I think? I think this is a generational thing. Well, you guys had to endure all this kind of garbage. Well, we had to endure it, but I think that millennials as a generation were much more fixated on... What? Like, not participation trophies, but like ribbons, credentials. Oh my gosh, yes. Like, just obsessed with like being credentialed on this.

You got to go to this prestigious institution. You got to get this prestigious job, and Gen Z, I think. It sees through it. I think they see through it, don't care as much. They have different issues, and I think that there's a real profound nihilism kind of at the bottom of everything, because you see a lot of the hypocrisy and how the credentials don't really mean anything. So, you either find some purpose, or you don't find purpose, and everything becomes nihilism.

And that's why I think they don't accept the same orthodoxies that come with, say, the credentialed institution, or they're just more comfortable being honest. About reality as they see it, because they don't care about the punishment, and so you get a vacuum, which we're clear, I mean, how much ink has been spilt over, say, you know, Nick Fuentes or whatever, and you're seeing the effects of, we don't have the same prestige institutions that once governed and directed people and say what you want about them and provided mentorship, and so now it's a bit more of the Wild West, where you get your influences from everywhere, and you've got to make up your minds, and people are trying to label you.

I think it is an opportunity, but it could also be a dangerous thing, as we have seen, and I think the true thing is you ground that in the moral vision of, say, the Catholic Church or Christian understanding, but you need good mentorship for that, and you need good mentorship that is not coming from a boomer lib, green carpet, love everyone message of Christianity. I think, like, the true message of Christianity is, like, A bit more of a Navy SEALs, like, it's not for everyone, you might not make it approach, I think, is a lot more appealing.

Because people don't want watered-down stuff. They want Church Fathers documents. No, I got you, but I agree with you that Gen Z cared less about credentials than millennials. By the way, that was repeated. With Gen X. Gen X did not care at all like boomers did on credentials and making sure you got to, you know, go to college and this and that. Whatever, dude. We see through your garbage and your baloney, you know. So, but the problem was, at Obama's age, we had millennials coming to age in political power and the boomers and, you know, Gen X was like, you guys are both crazy.

I don't care. Now we're getting some reinforcements with Gen Z. So, we'll see. That's why you keep bringing up, like, oh, Trump might be the moderate. People are real. Like, especially some of the Gen Alpha views are just like, oh, it would take your breath away, what they are considering, by the way. Anyway, okay, my good news, I guess it's kind of good news, kind of bad news. So, Axios- It's my favorite kind. Yes, kind of good, kind of bad. This is what we do.

So, Axios quizzed nearly 20 Democrats viewed as possible 2028 contenders on trans rights. Almost all ducked it. We asked, what is your response to the question, can a man become a woman? And for the audience listeners, there was one of the 20 that dared to speak bluntly. Any guesses?

I guess you guys can see, but... I'm not shocked at the answer yet. I can't read. It's Rahm Emanuel. It's Rahm Emanuel was the one that was not afraid to lean into the question, can a man become a woman? And hilariously, I think...

And what's Tim Miller? He's a bulwark. I think he worked on Jeb Bush's campaign. His response to this is my good news, actually. Can a man become a woman is such a rage bait BS question. It has no bearing on policy. An adult can become whatever he wants if he doesn't harm others. And that's my critique of libertarianism, by the way. Libertarians keep emailing me. I like a lot of what you've got going on. That's one of the problems.

The DHS secretary has an entirely new face, and president wears more makeup than most drag queens. What? There's two elements to this that I think are great news. One, if this is going to be the prevailing, we duck the question, and whether you become a man or woman is dependent upon how much plastic surgery you have and how much makeup you wear. Democrats are kind of destined to lose elections until the end of time. If you have an opposing candidate that actually is firm.

Nobody understands, is not afraid to address the issue, because the reality is, I mean, what did we just argue at the Supreme Court? This does have bearing on policy, and it's an 80-20 issue, and it's crazy to me that you're preparing to run in 2028, and you don't have a coherent answer provided for whether or not to become a woman, and it's just been such an electoral loser that I'm just like, this is fantastic news. It's worth pointing out, though, the guy that you quoted, Tim Miller, I mean, not only is he gay.

But he worked for the McCain campaign. He worked for the Romney campaign. In fact, he was the... The Romney campaign's liaison to the Republican National Committee. I mean, this is not just some, like, fluke guy. Like, this is a guy, and then he ran, you know, was with Jeb Bush. Jeb! Exclamation point. Yes, of course. And so, like, if you want a perfect embodiment of everything that went wrong with the Republican Party in the 21st century, Tim Miller's your guy. This is why we got Trump, Tim.

This is why we have Trump. Yeah, that's why we got defeated at every turn for, you know. 2008, 2008. How do we keep losing? Why do we get these... Tim Miller was... Yeah, and of course, this question was the theme last week with the Supreme Court arguments that we talked about at length there, and the question, of course, came up to the ACLU lawyer from Justice Alito.

How do we define sex in law? And what struck me there, and with this list of Democrats, and also with Ben Shapiro went on Gavin Newsom's podcast last week, which was a trip, but the same question came up, and Ben asked Gavin, like, has your thinking changed? What are you going to do about the boys and girls sports? The astonishing intellectual laziness of the left when it comes to this question. That the ACLU, they knew this question was coming. The Democrats must know that this is an 80-20 issue.

It's not moving, and they still don't have an answer. But they're going to keep pushing in their policy decisions and recommendations to appear as libertarian as possible on this question, and just hope that it won't make a difference to the American voters in 26 and 28. And I'm like, guys, you got to get off your duffs and come up with some kind of an answer. Some kind of an argument, but if last week was any testimony, and this poll here is any testimony, they're just not.

They won't. So, here's an unfortunate example of what can happen, though. This is why it's good news, bad news, because we covered the Virginia election really just, you know, nothing against Winston Sears personally, just kind of a lackluster candidate, in my opinion, kind of ran a lackluster campaign. And so, you get You know, here she is. I think someone said she looks like... Abigail Spanberger. Abigail Spanberger looks like she's going to get you to flip on your sibling for some Turkish delights, which is hilarious.

But anyway, so here's... And this is their, like, rising star, Tyler Cohen, you know, YouTube guy. Virginia Democrats now have total control of state government and have immediately moved to end police cooperation with Trump's ICE, pass new maps to combat Trump's gerrymandering, and eliminate up to four Republican House seats. enshrined lgbtq plus rights in the state constitution enshrined abortion rights in the state constitution protect and expand voting rights fire republican appointees the university of virginia board re-establish support for diversity inclusion accelerate a minimum wage increase build more uh housing to lower rent prices this is from a pro her account and it's like If you don't run good campaigns, this is the unfortunate reality.

The majority of the Democratic Party, if you haven't noticed by now, can't answer that question and take the other side of it, where it's like, we're just going to go all in on the transgender madness, or we're going to do nothing to stop it. And so, I think at this point, it's like, if you're a Republican and you have not taken the bull by the horns at this point, have a firm answer. On men and women being separate in sport, in private spaces, period, then you could lose to someone like this, and this is the reality, is if you don't address it head-on, this is where we get.

Yeah, this could be us in 28 nationally. So. Yeah, I mean, this is what I'm getting at, too. Like, it's not uncommon to have people on our side, Christians, Catholics, you know, they'll mention. Problems that they have with candidates on our side. Like, Trump isn't perfect because of this, that, and that. And I'm like, you know, look, I get it. Like we talked about in the last episode, when he strays, we call him to task. We try to put pressure. We try to mobilize and try to get the best policies going forward.

But, you know, I don't know. I kind of agree with Nate Shulman. I have this crazy idea that we're in a culture war, and Christians should advocate for the side that does not hate them. Just an idea. One side barges into churches and screams at people. True. Prevents law enforcement from arresting child rapists. You know, doesn't understand what the hell a woman is. Like, these are people that have got real problems. They should be outside of political power. And the reminder here is, we have to.

We have to win in 2028, and then again in 2032, to break the heel of the woke stuff, because what's happening in Minneapolis and what's happening in Virginia is a reminder. This far-left, radical attempt to reshape American society, they are not moderating in any way. They want to bring us all under their neo-Marxist rule.

We need to stop them. All right, this will be a fun break from a lot of tough conversation here. Here is a tweet from Patrick Neve. Here is the lead-up, the LinkedIn hook. Every Catholic knows someone who drives 30 minutes to Mass, passing three parishes along the way. Maybe you are that person, but church hopping is killing our parishes. I get the appeal. The music, homilies, or community are better somewhere else. But when faithful Catholics scatter across a diocese chasing the perfect parish, nobody builds anything.

It causes a dilution of resources. People aren't working together because they don't see each other. The parish you hate might need you. And you get a Substack article. So, it is almost at a million views on X. I would say a very artful, maybe a tasteful rage bait. I think a lot of people feel this problem, where they have to drive pretty far to get to a parish that nourishes their faith and their family.

And so, he is making an argument against that, and I want to give him the good faith read, because this obviously kicked up a lot. His main argument. He quoted, it was a very short article, but he quoted an address to the Roman clergy, Pope Paul VI, on what a parish is supposed to do. This old and venerable structure of the parish has an indispensable mission of great contemporary importance to create the basic community of Christian people, to initiate and gather the people in the custom expression of liturgical life, to conserve and renew the faith in the people of today, to serve as the school for teaching the salvific.

Message of Christ. And so, basically, I think that was his argument of those elements in this address are why you should be going to your local church so you can kind of build it up. I'll put it out. I went pretty deep. I went to Code of Canon Law. I went to the starting of Catholic churches and Catholic churches in America. But before I get to that, do you guys have any strong feelings about church hopping immediately before I get a little bit deeper?

Yes, I do. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate Patrick, what he's trying to say, and this is a question that Todd and I have struggled with throughout our marriage. We've lived in many different places, and the majority of the places in which we've lived, we have driven and passed two, three, four, even up to seven parishes to get to a church.

I do think that Patrick underestimates, and God bless him, I think he underestimates the importance of finding a community and a priest who will not undo all that you are trying to do in the home, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

The reality is, in the places at least in which we have lived, there have been an overwhelming number of parishes that either the priest is preaching something contrary to the faith, or so squishy that we spend every drive home trying to explain to the kids that, no, the Eucharist is actually the body of Christ. Jesus actually multiplied the loaves and fishes. It wasn't just that they had extra bread in their pockets. And a spirit of sharing came upon them. That was a literal homily that we had to explain multiple times to our kids from different priests in a certain diocese we lived in.

And when you're raising children, this whole idea of parish building, yes, it's true. It's important to be a good example to your parish, but your kids are not missionaries when they're five, six, seven, eight years old. If you have to drive to expose them to reverent liturgy, That doesn't undo what you do at home, then so be it. Go ahead and drive. And the reality is, you can build things that are 30 minutes from your house, and the implication of the article is that you can't build parishes because you're driving so far, and I beg to differ.

It's total baloney. I beg to differ. People who have destination parishes, and every diocese has these, those parishes are built up. They are thriving, in spite of the fact that people are driving to get to them. So, those are my initial thoughts. I have more, but I'll let Josh have the floor. Sure, Josh. I think what he's trying to get at is that, you know, like the dull, boring, bad church, you have the opportunity to try to make it better. And I'm just not so sure you actually have much capacity to make it better.

Has not been my experience. Or that's actually the best. That's all right. Or that it's the best you can do. You overestimate your aura. Right. And it's also the case that... Look, it is hard to go into a church like that and to try to get everyone on board with what you are trying to say and fight all the time. Sometimes you want to go to church because you need help. You need to be refreshed. You know what I'm saying? Like, why can't it be iron sharpening iron?

So, yes, I drive, my family drives a little bit further to go to a parish that was, you know, there wasn't anything wrong with the other parish, okay? It was just, there was a priest there, good man, I love him, but he was, like, putting you to sleep. 45-minute mass, and you're out the door, and there was just, there was nothing there. No community. Yeah, there's no community. It was, like, it was like eating a donut full of air. Like, what is this?

This does nothing. To enhance us, you know, like, and we try bringing more stuff to it, and it doesn't happen, and you try getting people excited about this or that, and they're all like, meh. So, we went to another parish, and the community is thriving, and we're helping to add to that, and we're making it better. So, I could not, I mean, I think I understand his point. I have nothing against him, per se. I think he's a nice guy. I actually communicate with him a lot, but I found this argument to be very wanting, and the fact of the matter is, I think We have to come to a little bit of terms here.

Is the obligation only on us? I mean, look, I'm trying to do everything I can to make the parish I go to, which is a little bit further right, to contribute, to give of my own talents and my own treasure. Absolutely.

And the priest there is receptive of it, and he loves it, and we're fostering a community. But what I'm trying to get at is, I love you, bishops, but dude, it's called quality control. We've had way too many parishes in this country that are doing exactly what Erika says, where they're doing counter-programming. You know, they're espousing something that is not what the Catholic Church teaches, and so it's like, well, wait a minute now. You know, I buy a bottle of Heinz ketchup.

I expect it to be ketchup, not to come out mayonnaise. You know, what is going on here? Like, you know, so there's a lot of Catholics who just want what the Church teaches and for it to be embraced, and if you have to drive a little further for it, go for it. All right, I got a couple points.

This is an interesting view on church hierarchy, which— I don't want to say it's not Catholic, but, like, the pastor has the authority to do a lot of things at the parish level. You don't have the authority as a showing up to Mass. You don't have the authority. And then the bishop has a lot of authority vested by God.

A parish, an individual parish, isn't a divine institution. The church, the Catholic Church, Catholic Church is the divine institution. If a parish, unfortunately, goes under, that's not like a spiritual crime. It might be sad, but, like... You're not, as a Catholic, you aren't, like... Personally, given the responsibility of keeping a parish afloat, parishes have come and gone many times.

And then, also, I was going into canon law, so there's two canon laws. 1983 canon law, which I'm not a canon lawyer. I just did a little bit of research on this. You're terrible. You just play one on TV. Yeah, I just play one on TV.

A person who assists at Mass, celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite, either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day, satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass. And the key word is anywhere. From the previous version of canon law, that would be the 1917 code, they didn't have that phrase anywhere in there, so there was at the time actually a little bit of an understanding that it would be a little bit more territorial. They call them like territory parishes.

And then, interesting, that wasn't addressed in the article, but priests, so if your parish is in a specific territory, you have an obligation to everyone in the territory that you are around. So, even if they're not Catholic, And they come to you. Like, they would be basically, like, your responsibility. So, the understanding of territory actually comes more, lands more in the pastor itself, rather than the individuals within said territory. And then, of course, now with the new Code of Canon Law, it says anywhere.

But then, even before that 1917 Code, and like way before, there was actually a long time where there was no, like, code, like, canon law. And if you go back, and I was thinking of this myself, because we have all these ethnic parishes.

So, in America, we didn't even really have, like, basically what Patrick is arguing for actually never really existed in America. Right. Because America was kind of an extension. We didn't have a geographic tradition, right? We didn't have a geographic tradition, and actually it was many of the immigrant communities that came here, say, like the Italians or the Polish. That's why you get beautiful Polish cathedrals. And it's funny, like, some of the things that were happening at the time with these territorial parishes weren't actually all super positive.

Like, You couldn't get married in a certain church. You couldn't marry someone that was of a different ethnicity in that other church. They were very territorial, and we get these beautiful cathedrals from them, but not ideal. So, the reasons that, and I want to give a shout out to is a good Substack article that went a little bit deeper. It was Kevin Tierney. Shout out. But he was making the argument of why the territory parish died, and it never really existed in America outside of these ethnic enclaves.

So, more transportation, like we have cars, roads, etc. So, that is why it never really took root, and then the development of suburbs happened too. So, you go off into the suburbs, and you can drive everywhere. So, if you got to think back to why the territory model exists before, people were walking, physically walking to their church. And they couldn't actually get anywhere else. Like, they couldn't go to another church. They just never had the option. So, it wasn't even, like, in the mind of people to have to address this.

No, I think that's a perfect example. That's good, yeah. Yeah, and then the final one, which was an interesting one to think about. And I'll actually quote directly from it. Vatican II implementation. And I'm going to say implementation because, again, I don't think it's the documents themselves. The implementation of the documents are problematic. As the 70s and 80s progressed, a key identifying mark of the parish is how faithful they were to implementing Vatican II, whatever you took that to mean. This proved a highly contentious process and led to fractures, not only along ethnic or geographic lines, but ideological ones.

People were alienated from those original communities and once alienated, looked for areas where they would feel. More welcome. So, in that period of time, there's actually more of a divide, not on geography and territory, but more along ideology. So, you get some parishes, like you said, Erika, where you're either just teaching, you're preaching something heretical, or you have so much control over that it's just like a bizarre.

And so, people that wanted an actual good, reverent liturgy, they had to go. They had to go find somewhere else. They were actually kicked out of what would have been their territory. So, I guess, and the funny thing about this entire conversation that I'll end it with is, as Josh said, The reality on the ground is, I think we have like an estimate of 29% of U.S. Catholics attend Mass weekly or more often. That is a Pew Research study. It is horrendous, yeah.

33% of Catholics attend weekly or nearly every week. That is from a Gallup poll in 2021-2023. We have not recovered post-COVID. To look in the mirror and be like, the solution to this is going to be territory parishes, the reality is people aren't going to Mass. That is the greatest problem in all of this, and backed up by canon law and everything, you should be going to Mass as a Catholic every Sunday, and that's not happening. We have like a vast majority of Catholics that identify as Catholic and do not go to Mass.

So, like you said, there is, it feels like some responsibility from our shepherds and our pastors is like, Identifying the problem here, why are people not coming back to Mass? Are we not emphasizing enough? Are we not catechizing well enough? Are our liturgies not reverent enough? There are so many examples of pastors coming on the scene and moving the tabernacle to a back closet, and putting in bizarre liturgical practices that are anathema to people that want to go to liberty. Oh, Tom, allow me to explain.

Go for it. I mean, this is what's happening. Literally, the house I grew up in. We've bordered our Catholic Church. You can't get more territorial than that. I walk out of my backyard and walk right to church, a brutalist, ugly church, St. George. I refer to it as St. Bingo because, you know, most churches in the 1980s had bingo, not adoration of the Eucharist. You know, you go in there, the tabernacle downstairs in the closet around the corner.

And it was just ugly. It was an ugly church, and, you know, again, the 80s, you know, with Archbishop Roach in Minneapolis, and he was just, he was practically a dissident. And, you know, I lost my faith. I lost my faith, because, like, there was no, no one believed it, and no one, you know, and it was like, and then when I finally discovered actual Catholicism, you know, three, four years later, I was like, I felt that I had been robbed.

We never talked about the insights that Augustine had, or Aquinas, or anything like that. We never talked about it. It was just all huggy, happy-feeling, nice. It's a bunch of just garbage, you know? And masculine virtues were shunned upon by my religious teacher. It's like, wow, okay.

Yeah, and I think that hopefully the trend is shifting, and we see this in the younger generations of priests. We see that they're more conservative politically and more orthodox theologically, but it's going to be a long generational project to recover from what Josh is describing, and this was decades and decades of just the obliteration, liturgical winter, as my parents like to call it. To call it. And it's going to be a long time for spring to come on this one. And if, in the meantime, for those of us who are raising children right now, it is absolutely the priority to get them in a community where we can walk into a church, and we aren't like the freak show, right?

Like, we walk into parishes here in New England sometimes, and it's like, oh, children, what are they doing here? And you don't want your kids to experience Experience that day after day, and year after year, and week after week, and I think that... Well, you have like sprouts in New England, right? From the winter, just a few little sprouts. What is this? It's like, oh! Yeah, it feels like the sensible approach, and if we were actually like, if synodality actually was a real thing that people were taking seriously, you would go to the places that are packed to the brim, have tons of kids, take notes, and then go to the other places and be like, okay, why does this not...

Match. What's going on here that is not matching on here? And then you would try to make those implementations. Foster more. Foster more. Uniformity, yeah. And I'm saying this, you know, in charity, because, like, basically, your approach, Erika, was you're like, I don't want to go places where, like, we are literally the anomaly and treated like freak shows. And it's not that you're looking at it from a selfish, like, perspective. Like, you're not going to mass and looking selfish. No. But I do think that there should be.

Like, at least an acknowledgement of the reality on the ground of, like, if this church is dead, and no one goes there, and the population is aging, what is going on here that is causing that to happen? And then, what is going on at these other places that are causing it to flourish? And if we're serious about having a growing, like, church, if we're serious about having a church that lasts, we need to make some of those changes everywhere. And it's really not on you.

Like, you, the preacher, don't have the power to do that. Yes. It's like diagnosing the people that left as the problem. It's like, why they left as the problem, not the people that left to go somewhere else. You don't want to be the freak show, and as you get these little sprouts of action at other parishes going good, that's great. You want to foster that, or you could be like the Bishop of Charlotte, and you can nuke those little places where they're going up.

What in the world is going on? We just have a bishop come in and blow torch stuff and, like, get those, you know, rail, you know, altar rails out. I mean, we have had enough churchmen, you know, bishops, and obviously the recent Pope Francis, who just had a visceral disgust at people who love the faith more, who are more traditional, you know? So, yeah, sorry if we are trying to protect our own. It is like, it reminded me, actually, by the way, his comment, it is sort of like, remember the Titans.

Where the white guy was trying to instill leadership on the black guy. It is like, you are not doing your part, you know? Gary Berthier. And, you know, you got to block your guy, you got to do all this stuff, but what had happened was the white guy that was scolding the black guy was turning the other way when other white guys were mistreating black players.

So, the black guy says to the white guy, well, attitude reflects the leadership. You know, like, I mean, that's just, like, what do you expect? You know, you expect us to completely, you know, jump on a sword and do everything right, but then you turn around and you don't got our backs? Yeah. So.

Interesting. I love that analogy. Can't believe you pulled that one out. Yeah, that was pretty incredible, Josh. And then ain't no mountain high plays at the end of it, and we win the championship. Ten out of ten. It's the end goal.

Hey, I want my church to be perfect. What do you got here? What are we doing? Are we doing Twilight Zone stuff now? I didn't think this was real. I see yours, and I was going to send it to you. I thought this was AI-generated. Yeah, I thought it was AI, because I know you like Star Trek. Okay, so I'm a big Star Trek fan. I've always been. I like the original one. I even like the next generation, although some kind of lefty stuff in there for sure.

And then they did a bunch of other Star Trek stuff in recent years, like... What the heck is it? Star Trek... I don't know. STD, discovery, and, you know, where dudes are kissing and stuff. Yeah, well, that's the acronym I give it. Come on. A dude's kissing. Sacred theology degree.

Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Clearly not. So, but then they have one, actually, that came out in the show called Stranger Worlds, and it's much like the old school stuff, and fans love it, and it's super successful, and it's, you know, they use it to advertise it in Walmart. I mean, it's just, it's a banger hit. So, the lesson that Star Trek got is, let's not do that anymore. They come up with a show, again, super left wing. You'd think I'd be making this up, but it's Star Trek.

I literally thought it was AI. I saw the clip. Wild. Here's, so they have this new show, Star Trek, Starfleet Academy. I don't even have a clip of the video, but here's the point. It would hurt you too much.

Paramount has spent five to six million dollars per episode, okay? They're trying to get people to join Paramount Plus, and hey, they've got this new show on Star Trek. They spend $5 to $6 million on this episode of Star, on each episode of Star, this new Star Trek show, Starfleet Academy. Yep. They decide, we're going to give away the first video for free, and we'll premiere it on YouTube.

And it got about the same audience that we got for our election special last week. Yes! I wanted to know why you wanted that number. Yeah, I was like, where am I going with this? They literally gave away their first episode for free, and Paramount spent a ton of money hyping this. Watch it for free, because you'll watch this first episode, and you'll love it so much that you'll sign up for Paramount Plus to watch Starfleet Academy.

And they put it on YouTube for free. You can watch it for free. I wouldn't recommend watching it, but... They had 1,300 viewers. Oh, my gosh. Which is what we had on election night. I'm telling you, we had just as many on our election night coverage. The one scene... Wait, but Josh, the scene that... I didn't even send it to you, because I literally was like, this might be AI.

It was like a training scene. It kind of looked like they were in the, like, Star Wars, where they had the council, and they're like, we, in our training here at Starfleet Academy, like, we respect all peoples and all cultures. It literally was like someone AI'd that in, because I was like, there's no way this would be real dialogue. And then, like, of course, like, the white male Star Trek Academy person was like, no, I don't think this is relevant. And you're like, I'm kind of sympathizing with this guy.

Why am I in here getting lectured on this? Like, dude, we got to go do stuff. We got to go. The galaxy or whatever, but that is tough. Still a nerd, but tough. Totally. I like that Stephen Miller jumped in and told Miller and Shatner to save the franchise. That was pretty cool. Shatner.

The show. Oh, Erika, you're going to step into a controversy. I am, I am. No, this is actually, I just want to give a shout out to my friend, Jeremy Tate, founder of the Classic Learning Test Exam. Go check it out if you have high schoolers or middle schoolers. But he just had a comment on MLK Day, which is today, which CatholicVote does not observe as a day off for its employees. We have other holidays, like.

The holy days of obligation, et cetera. You're more of a Malcolm X guy. You know me, Tom. You totally nailed me on that one. But it is MLK Day. He was a a controversial figure, but no doubt he was a sort of a bellwether, a watershed moment in America. And the guy was highly educated. So, this comes from Jeremy Tate marking MLK Day today. He writes, It is a tragedy, and I was thinking of our protesters at the, protesters, our mob at the church in Minneapolis this weekend.

It is a tragedy that 60 years later, most American students can't even understand MLK or why his writing and speaking were so powerful. He brought the entire weight of the Western Christian classical tradition to make his case. In his letter from a Birmingham jail, King casually assumes the reader will understand references to Socrates, Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the prophets of the 8th century BC, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, King Nebuchadnezzar, the early Christians, St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, John Bunyan, Reinhold Niebuhr, Paul Tillich, and Martin Buber.

The reality is that most American students have little or no knowledge of these giants. Since they can no longer understand or appreciate King, they are abandoning his method of nonviolence. And that's what we're seeing in Minneapolis, my friend. Interesting take.

It is interesting. I mean, that he's specifically leaning into how much of, you know, a classical education he got. That is interesting. You know, even Boston University admitted that he plagiarized his doctoral thesis. That's why I don't call him Dr. King. Yeah, are we? Okay, so where are we at on, listen, you know, it's MLK Day, it's a federal holiday, but he was a communist, he was an adulterer, he witnessed a rape and laughed about it. Like.

So let's just say a lot of personal failures, and then also plagiarize the speech, but I think you can still appreciate the nonviolent approach to civil rights in which there was a lot of wins and gains, and it was good for national unity and restoration of rights and that kind of thing. Is that where we can land on that? I don't even know if I would take, because basically at this point. I almost feel like it's been beaten over people's heads, like, you've got to love this guy, and then you look into his personal writing and expose, and you're like, ah, he actually wasn't that good of a guy.

Well, he did do some objective good stuff. Right. Exactly. Yeah, and I did not know a lot about sort of his own development and trajectory until I did the Hillsdale College online free course, Not to Tooth Their Horn Again. Man, they should pay me, Hillsdale.

But they have a great… You're paying them, though. That's true. I am paying them. But they have a fantastic course on the rise of the left and progressivism, and I would highly recommend it. They have a whole episode on Martin Luther King, and over time, he did change, but his early work in the civil rights movement, it was much more grounded, this Birmingham jail letter. I would recommend you read it and learn more about him. He was a complicated guy. I don't think we should just canonize him and be like, oh my gosh, nothing wrong here, nothing to see.

He's super complicated. A lot of heroes of many movements are complicated. I mean, saints are rare in politics. Right. In much the way that we compliment Trump for the very good things he does, but we don't excuse... I was just going to say, like Donald Trump, and so I would recommend we take that approach. Although, someone I was talking to, a friend of mine, was mentioning that the Catholic schools write a story about some hero, this kind of stuff. And if someone were to write about MLK and the stuff he did, that would be fine.

That would be fine by me. But the person noted that, like, 20% of the kids would write about Harvey Milk as a hero. And it's like, what are you doing? Like, as a Catholic school, like, you're celebrating a pedophile, you know, and it's the first.

You know, gay guy in an elected office. Like, what? Like, what in the world? Like, there's... Like, underage... There are seriously four billion people you could honor before that. Yeah, people are bringing up, rightfully so, like if you were to actually take a lot of biblical heroes at face value, all very flawed characters. No doubt. Oh my gosh, no doubt. Yes. I'm reading, I'm in Genesis 34 right now, Bible of the Year. Holy kaputs, Batman. Yeah, Solomon. Just be patriarchs. Oh my gosh, yeah, I mean, you go through.

I guess isn't that the point? Maybe then what's frustrating, I'm trying to diagnose, I guess, the complicated feelings and I'm okay because... Yeah. I think it is a bit of the canonization, or it feels like it's just... Even if it's for good purposes, the force-feeding of this guy has to be basically a saint. When you see a lot of that kind of stuff behind the scenes, I think it's rubbing people the wrong way, because then also there's people that do go, not to say, I'm not either a scholar on MLK or Malcolm X, but Malcolm X, also a very complicated figure, and actually does have some positives in there as well, and there are people that I've seen, like, there's a good example of that guy from Georgia, he has the Malcolm X school for boys.

In which he, like, teaches the boys to be self-sufficient, dress well, to be able to read well, speak. You know what I mean? Like, so you can take some things from that that are positive, too, and I guess maybe at the end of the day, it is like people can look at something and then take out of it what they want to take out of it without any regard to the actual story or substance to begin with. People do that with the Bible.

People do that with all kinds of texts and figures and heroes. It's like, I know what I want to take out of this. So, I am going to do it regardless of what the actual text says. And I just like to live in the truth, you know what I mean? In my mind, if you cannot support Donald Trump because he committed adultery and you cannot vote for him, I understand and I appreciate that. This is absolutely the best chance we had, you know, and I was not going to allow Kamala Harris to come into power.

So, like, you know, the idea that, you know, I think we just need to be... You know, honest, you know, about this situation, and, you know, like, that is why this, I wrote that article, you know, I mentioned it on the last episode, and we.

I ran a story about it today's loop about, you know, Trump is very flawed. Yeah, well, you know what? I'm going to try to make him better, and, you know, some people on the sidelines just throw rocks at us when we're trying to make the thing better. It's like, shut up. Like, it just drives me crazy. So, you know, I don't embrace the sins of other people when I highlight their good stuff, and so, yeah. No, maybe then the core of all of it is the honesty.

People just want to... Feel like people are being honest with them, and not using them to propagandize them for other reasons. And you could say the same with the... We had that conversation, I think, I've been thinking about it a lot, actually, since you said this, of like, there's a certain generation of Americans that have grown up largely trusting the government, and the government actually developing, sorry, coming through on promises that they delivered. And then there's been about 30 years here where it's not just that the government hasn't delivered, they've been demonstrably lying.

To the American public, and acting to subvert their interests for 30 years, and that's now the standard. So, I think, like, maybe why we're seeing, it's not revisionism on MLK, it's just more of an honesty. That's the key. It's like, we just want to feel like people are actually being honest with us, and the more you do the lying, and the propaganda, and the gaslighting, the more you're going to get people that kind of come up as, like, quote, truth-tellers, that maybe don't even really deserve it or haven't earned it, say, like, through publishing and elections.

But people give them credit because the other people are lying. So, you're like, they're going to pick up a huge audience because they are saying some things that are true. Maybe then they're not properly formed or prepared to be in that kind of spotlight, but they're at least being honest. And so, I don't know. MLK maybe is like an interesting, you know, microcosm for the broader reckoning I feel like that we're having right now. And it reminds me of something that David Marcus said over the weekend.

It's a little bit... Aside on this, but he said the real divide in America today is between those who want an unelected, all-knowing, elite, expert class to rule over them, and those of us who want a government that actually obeys the people, even when the people might be wrong. That is ultimately what is at stake right now in our country. That is the question of the day. True facts.

My squad zone, I'm just going to do an extra good news because I can't get enough of Fernando Mendoza. He's the quarterback of IU. He is the cutest dude I have ever seen, and it is going to be hilarious if he gets drafted to the Raiders, because they are like a criminal franchise.

He is the most relentlessly positive dude I have ever heard, and I think it is legit. He has done it so much now that I am like, I actually just think this is probably how he is. Yeah, he is just him. Here is a clip. He is about to play in the National Championship game tomorrow. I am a Catholic. I am a Catholic man, and they have done so much to help me, whether it is confession or just being able to talk.

Or just mass every Sunday. So, you know, I really give a lot that I have accomplished this season in my life to the Lord. I really give thanks to God. And, for example, the Heisman, the first thing I said in the Heisman speech was, like, give all the glory to God. Like, thank you so much to God. And so, I think it was really important to take it over to those guys, especially those guys who have been great religious mentors to myself.

Talking about the two guys, the guys at IU. The Dominican fathers. I do not know their names in particular, but I have been following with great interest, just because every time I see them, they are like covered in confetti for another win, and they are just in their habits. It is so awesome. So, yeah, shout out for Nando. No offense to Miami, but I think we are all rooting for... Talk about another criminal franchise. That goes back even deeper. Oh, man.

This is another version of Catholics vs. Converts. We got round two. Convicts. Convicts. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Convicts, Tom. Convicts. Oh, yeah. Maybe one day, hopefully. Convicts. But, the funniest thing I've seen about this is, so the coach, Kurt Cignetti, never smiles. Like, he's like the next coming of Saban, just never smiles, and Fernando Mendoza is like relentlessly positive and smiling all the time, and someone said it's like, he's like the kid from Up, like the Doug kid, and then Cignetti is like the grumpy old man, and it's like a Disney movie of like, you have the most relentlessly positive quarterback and the most serious coach of all time, so anyway.

Sports are fun. You know, sports are life. It's an extension of life, and it's cool. I like to see that, and yeah, the Chicago Bears, it was a fun run, and my in-laws were all fired up, and the only way to explain that is the Pope. So many of these plays, I'm just like, the Pope is involved. He was praying. There's no other way. I don't know how they keep doing it. Clock struck midnight. I think you've got a great future, guys.

I'm excited for you. It was fun experiencing that with my wife and my in-laws. That is the most locked-in I have seen my wife in a long time on sports. She has been cheering the Detroit sports, because Detroit sports has been awesome. She is a good wife. She had her moment, so I was happy for that. Okay, so we end today. Go Patriots.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pats, Pats. I love a Patriots game in the snow. That was just like, oh, icing on the cake for the weekend. That was, yeah. That just feels right, you know? And, oh, the game at Soldier Field, seeing the snow at Soldier Field, it's just, everything's right, you know what I mean? Everything's okay in the world. There's a snow game at Soldier Field. Well, we still got to worry about the refs. That was a bunch of baloney.

Did you see the Bills fired their coach after playoffs? That was harsh, yeah. Crazy. Anyway, Harbaugh is already hired. Wait, did you predict that? Did we talk about that? Of course I did. Yeah, that was a mercy. That was crazy how quick they hired him. They're just like, the Giants have been... Waiting. They were waiting. What are your terms? That's what they asked. Yeah.

How many zeros do I need to put on this check? Name your price. Name your price. Okay. Good show, gang. We'll send you off and do a good week. We've got lots of good stuff coming up for you. We're going to end in a prayer today.

If you want to support us, kathicfoot.org slash champions, where you can do that. Glad to see we got some nice live viewers. I think we're almost at 300 in the live chat. That's the highest it's been in a while.

Good to see everyone. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 11 a.m. YouTube. So, on to the prayer. Can I... I just want to... As we're praying, I want to... I want to... In a special way, I was in Denver, and just the way circumstances happen, Uber ride at 3.20 in the morning or whatever it is, and I am chatting with this guy on the way to the airport. And we start talking, and he is from Belarus. You know, he is an immigrant to the country.

And so, you know, I wonder where he is going to stand on Donald Trump and what he is doing on immigration. He said he loved Donald Trump. Finally, somebody is doing something about illegal immigration. We start talking about it. It turns out… An illegal immigrant went 85 miles an hour in a 40-mile-an-hour zone, killing two people in a car accident in Aurora, and the cars went off the road and into a Baskin-Robbins ice cream shop where his wife was buying ice cream for his three-year-old son, who perished.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. You know, it's just heartbreaking. These are stories that the media doesn't like to talk about as much. They print it in the newspaper, but they don't forget about it. You know, they can still largely forget about it. And I said to him, I said, listen, you know, he was Asmani Jewish, and I said, well, I love a Jewish woman. Her name is Mary, the mother of Jesus, and I will ask all my fellow Catholics.

To pray for his son, Martin, I said, you know, this Jewish woman, Mary, of course, the Blessed Virgin Mary, had to watch her son die, but there was life again through resurrection, and so let us say a Hail Mary.

For Martin, and for all the other families who have experienced the death of a child, to bury a child, I can't imagine. Our Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Amen. Amen. Great show, guys. Catch you live on Wednesday for another one. Peace.